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Ubuntu 20.04 LTS’ snap obsession has snapped me off of it

jatan.blog

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Re: Ubuntu 20.04 LTS’ snap obsession has snapped me off of it

#421

Post by shock »

I am very diligent about applying updates as soon as I'm able and generally read the changelogs of the updates I'm applying in Ubuntu's Software Updater.

One thing I will not do is willingly allow somebody else a way to deploy and execute code on my computer without my say so (which snap is).

After reading the whole thread at https://forum.snapcraft.io/t/disabling-automatic-refresh-for... and seeing Gustavo Niemeyer's arrogance (we know better than you when you should be applying updates) I will be voting with my feet and will be installing Pop!_OS instead of Ubuntu, and if snapd is present I will remove it.

The stated goal of Niemeyer, to have users use updated software, would have been fulfilled in my case if I had a way to see what updates would be applied beforehand, instead of the updates being force-installed.

Lengthy dialog with Niemeyer in the forum thread seems to have been a waste of time for all the people who participated trying to convince him to allow disabling of force-installed updates so I suggest you do the same as me and vote with your feet!

Re: Ubuntu 20.04 LTS’ snap obsession has snapped me off of it

#423

Post by RealityVoid »

michaelmrose wrote: post #398
ordinaryperson wrote: post #12

Maybe I'm in the minority but I like Snaps. I wish all software would auto-update silently in the background -- when's the last time you even thought about upgrading Chrome? The author of this article claims it's too difficult to find Flatpak apps and that the Ubuntu software center prioritizes Snaps over .deb. Are platforms never allowed to migrate to a new standard? Why is it Canonical's fault that authors of indiv…

You claim that snap offers real benefits but list none and dismiss detractors as irrational and suggest that instead of complaining about Snap users who have no desire to use snap should invest their own efforts to improve something they have no desire to use instead of being critical. You are correct that this appears to be EXACTLY like the systemd debate. Snap HOPES to provide an easier environment for developers t…

This is the most articulate argument for why snap is problematic so far. I'm sold.

Do you think it will be pushed to the background with time or will Canonical manage to push it through?

Re: Ubuntu 20.04 LTS’ snap obsession has snapped me off of it

#424

Post by shock »

bdamm wrote: post #301
koheripbal wrote: post #292

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because on an Ubuntu Server, it's auto-deploying updates that I haven't even tested.

That's not insecure-by-default, that's just you having a (legitimate) issue with the distribution chain. Insecure-by-default is installing software that has known weaknesses. That the process doesn't work for you doesn't mean the software is weak.

It's insecure by default because it's allowing somebody else to deploy code on you machines without your prior say-so.

Re: Ubuntu 20.04 LTS’ snap obsession has snapped me off of it

#425

Post by aeyes »

ultrarunner wrote: post #294
nromiun wrote: post #285

> Snap applications auto-update and that’s fine if Ubuntu wants to keep systems secure. But it can’t even be turned off manually. OMG. Is this real? This is the exact reason I use Linux instead of Windows 10 or macOS. I am not a grandma who can't stay up to date on tech news. At the least there should be a toggle for power users. But no, you can only defer it. Am I the only one who doesn't like it when your already s…

We work at remote sites on cell connections. Part of the reason we moved to Ubuntu from Windows was the ability to control data usage, which is expensive. Automatic updates quickly become a significant slice of the bill when random decisions like these get pushed on users. Ubuntu was supposed to help prevent us from needing to chase this.

Windows 10 has an out of the box feature to mark connections as metered which disables automatic updates.

Re: Ubuntu 20.04 LTS’ snap obsession has snapped me off of it

#426

Post by ultrarunner »

aeyes wrote: post #425
ultrarunner wrote: post #294

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We work at remote sites on cell connections. Part of the reason we moved to Ubuntu from Windows was the ability to control data usage, which is expensive. Automatic updates quickly become a significant slice of the bill when random decisions like these get pushed on users. Ubuntu was supposed to help prevent us from needing to chase this.

Windows 10 has an out of the box feature to mark connections as metered which disables automatic updates.

On Ethernet which ultimately has a cellular uplink?

Re: Ubuntu 20.04 LTS’ snap obsession has snapped me off of it

#427

Post by thawaway1837 »

dTal wrote: post #157
Achshar wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Disagree. “If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses.” - Henry Ford. Customer is mostly right. Not always. Use your best judgement as a business owner. Innovate where necessary and stick to customer feedback where you think it makes sense.

I think there's a pretty big distinction between the customer lacking the imagination to see a better solution until it is presented to them, and being denied a choice while being in full possession of the facts.

Yeah, and this isn’t even an equivalent situation.

A more comparable situation is if Ford had requested his supplier send him a certain type of screw but the supplier sent him a completely different type of screw because it was “better”. It may be better. But it may also be absolutely the wrong thing to build Ford cars out of because they weren’t designed to use it.

And that’s what Canonical often seems to forget. Ubuntu isn’t just a product. It’s also infrastructure, and an individual (although critical) part in many other products and systems.

And AFAICT Ubuntu as a product is far less popular, and pays far less of the bill than Ubuntu as infrastructure, which is why their actions are doubly incomprehensible.

Re: Ubuntu 20.04 LTS’ snap obsession has snapped me off of it

#428

Post by ironmagma »

nromiun wrote: post #285

> Snap applications auto-update and that’s fine if Ubuntu wants to keep systems secure. But it can’t even be turned off manually. OMG. Is this real? This is the exact reason I use Linux instead of Windows 10 or macOS. I am not a grandma who can't stay up to date on tech news. At the least there should be a toggle for power users. But no, you can only defer it. Am I the only one who doesn't like it when your already s…

There are people working on Ubuntu with tons of dubious ideas. I wouldn’t be surprised if this was the one that sealed its doom.

Re: Ubuntu 20.04 LTS’ snap obsession has snapped me off of it

#429

Post by techntoke »

DoofusOfDeath wrote: post #306
nromiun wrote: post #285

> Snap applications auto-update and that’s fine if Ubuntu wants to keep systems secure. But it can’t even be turned off manually. OMG. Is this real? This is the exact reason I use Linux instead of Windows 10 or macOS. I am not a grandma who can't stay up to date on tech news. At the least there should be a toggle for power users. But no, you can only defer it. Am I the only one who doesn't like it when your already s…

I agree entirely. Unavoidable updates were one of the key factors in my choice to avoid Windows 10 for business-critical computing. I standardized on Ubuntu instead, but this could be a deal-breaker for me. I hope Canonical fixes this immediately. I'm not eager to spend time re-researching to market for a suitable OS.

Just switch to Windows if you think that Ubuntu is your only choice for Linux desktop, and you're unhappy with it.

Re: Ubuntu 20.04 LTS’ snap obsession has snapped me off of it

#430

Post by eloisant »

Izkata wrote: post #406
tannhaeuser wrote: post #358

Earlier quoted context omitted.

+1 Insightful. > GNOME Calculator was put on the ISO as a snap to help us test the whole “seeding snaps” process, not because it was a fast-moving, CVE-prone applications. Chromium, Firefox and LibreOffice fall more into that category. Ok so the whole snap thing comes down to updating browsers. Is this for real? I want the web, not the browser to change daily, or to consume more bandwidth than my www usage :)

That... doesn't make sense. Chrome and Firefox (and possibly Chromium, I'm uncertain there) already can update out-of-band of apt/etc.

The idea is that the vendor can take care of the updates without having to go through all the package management system of all distributions
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