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Why Restaurants Are So Fucked

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Re: Why Restaurants Are So Fucked

#391

Post by mtrower »

smabie wrote: post #286
_ph_ wrote: post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most customers who have a glass of wine or beer with their dinner don't qualify as addicted. Also, the restaurants make the same (or even more profit) when selling alcohol-free beverages with their food.

Yeah, but I don't generally sit down and drink 3 cokes in one sitting. Alcohol is a great money maker because there's a large standard deviation to how many drinks a given person might order. It would be very rare for a customer to drink 3 cokes with dinner but not uncommon for someone to order 3 beers.

> Yeah, but I don't generally sit down and drink 3 cokes in one sitting

Do you generally sit down and drink 3 beers in one sitting?

> It would be very rare for a customer to drink 3 cokes with dinner but not uncommon for someone to order 3 beers.

At home, I drink much as I'm thirsty for, be it soda, beer, wine, tea, water... I certainly don't drink more just because it's alcoholic. I might drink less, or switch to something else, if I'm starting to feel drunk and it's not an occasion for such.

At a restaurant, I order less when alcohol is involved. I prefer to have my senses about me if I'll be driving home...

Re: Why Restaurants Are So Fucked

#392

Post by JoeAltmaier »

mtrower wrote: post #391
smabie wrote: post #286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, but I don't generally sit down and drink 3 cokes in one sitting. Alcohol is a great money maker because there's a large standard deviation to how many drinks a given person might order. It would be very rare for a customer to drink 3 cokes with dinner but not uncommon for someone to order 3 beers.

> Yeah, but I don't generally sit down and drink 3 cokes in one sitting Do you generally sit down and drink 3 beers in one sitting? > It would be very rare for a customer to drink 3 cokes with dinner but not uncommon for someone to order 3 beers. At home, I drink much as I'm thirsty for, be it soda, beer, wine, tea, water... I certainly don't drink more just because it's alcoholic. I might drink less, or switch to so…

Where I drink 5 or 6 with lunch. Not coke - sweet tea.

Re: Why Restaurants Are So Fucked

#393

Post by rv-de »

keiferski wrote: post #386
rv-de wrote: post #359

Earlier quoted context omitted.

how about this? https://medium.com/@joelleparenteau/wolfing-it-down-f703a3cf... "We are looking for people who love food and crave the experience of working in a restaurant that operates more like a tech startup — after all, that’s my background and we are backed by the Shopify founders." who craves the experience of working in a restaurant? wtf is wrong with that woman? it's a job and they enjoy it if the boss treat…

I worked in restaurants and bakeries for years. Certainly they have their issues, but the environment is a lot more enjoyable than a sitting at a desk in a generic office.

so, why do you sit then at desk in a generic office? of course working with human beings is more interesting and refreshing than programming bullshit services on a bullshit schedule. no doubts about that.

oh wait - you're a philosopher and entrepreneur travelling the world (4hww and drop shipping ?) - judging from that self-description you are part of that scene where everybody needs to be passionate and craving for some hip and pretentious someting which you probably document for everybody to like on your instagram profile - doing yoga on the beach and that stuff (while not knowing anything at all - especially not about yoga which you confuse with doing headstands and sitting somewhere with eyes closed planning your next great adventure).

Re: Why Restaurants Are So Fucked

#394

Post by Ntrails »

Mikeb85 wrote: post #265
simonebrunozzi wrote: post #215

I really dislike the way in which this article has been written - it reads as the typical piece from the "bro culture" that massively ignores the rest of the world. Besides this, which is not the point... 1) most restaurants in US and high-end Europe that survive and thrive do so by having big margins on alcohol. Their margins are not single-digits. (edit: just saw other comments mentioning this). 2) Many restaurateu…

2) is the correct answer. Most restaurateurs in Canada (and probably the US) are simply unsophisticated. Most of the restaurants I've worked for and/or run are basically money printing machines (I've been lucky and feel I'm pretty good now) while a few crashed and burned hard (and it was always pretty obvious they would). The example in the article has many, many things wrong with it.

The general rule that I've seen in the handful of UK establishments in which I've chef'd, is that food should be priced by ~tripling the cost of the raw ingredients. It's a pretty inexact science for anywhere small ish with a frequently changing menu - but it doesn't matter.

Alcohol also has a big markup, don't get me wrong, but it's not alone. And if you want to know the biggest "free profit" in a restaraunt - it's postmix soft drinks and tea/coffee.

Re: Why Restaurants Are So Fucked

#395

Post by keiferski »

rv-de wrote: post #393
keiferski wrote: post #386

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I worked in restaurants and bakeries for years. Certainly they have their issues, but the environment is a lot more enjoyable than a sitting at a desk in a generic office.

so, why do you sit then at desk in a generic office? of course working with human beings is more interesting and refreshing than programming bullshit services on a bullshit schedule. no doubts about that. oh wait - you're a philosopher and entrepreneur travelling the world (4hww and drop shipping ?) - judging from that self-description you are part of that scene where everybody needs to be passionate and craving for…

This comment is uncalled for and doesn’t belong on HN. I have nothing to do with drop shipping, 4HWW, or whatever imaginary identity you’ve given to me. I have a degree in analytical philosophy and I live abroad. Pretty straightforward.

Re: Why Restaurants Are So Fucked

#396

Post by mtrower »

MattGaiser wrote: post #226
kinkrtyavimoodh wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think the passion argument is that valuable. For a LOT of people programming is their passion. Yet they command some of the highest salaries. The labor market doesn't care about passion. It will settle where it needs to based on demand and supply.

Is it a work for $0 market due to passion though? I love programming. I am either programming, writing, or sleeping. I wouldn't live in a box with roommates to be one though. I think many of us would find regular engineering or analytics jobs instead. Slightly less interesting, but we could still program within those jobs. People who love food are basically willing to live in poverty to do it.

Yeah... and here's a thing. I can write programs all day long at home. I could spend the rest of my life on personal projects if I so chose, and had the financial security to do so. If I somehow ran out of ideas, I could write software for friends and family. If I wanted to scale up from there, I could work on open source projects. Some types of projects would be closed to me (big research, projects requiring specialized hardware, etc), but there's a lot a person can do on their own as a hobby.

Compare this to food. Beyond a very small scale (cooking for the immediate family, occasionally cooking for family events) there's a very fast, hard limit on what you can do as a hobbyist.

Re: Why Restaurants Are So Fucked

#397

Post by mtrower »

kevingadd wrote: post #256
sneak wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, this is a refutation of one of the author’s points: either you differentiate, or is is unskilled labor (and the iron law of wages is nipping at your toes). It’s possible to differentiate purely on marketing and not just food alone, too. But it’s madness to expect to make your money on volume in the restaurant biz and make any significant money without double-digit location counts and significant capital reserves;…

"either you differentiate, or is is unskilled labor" I don't think this assertion holds up, especially if you look at other industries. A car mechanic doesn't have much room for differentiation beyond "I can service more car brands" and "I'm cheaper" or "I'm faster". Anyone can match your offering as long as they can balance the trade-offs involved (sufficient resources, etc). That doesn't make being a car mechanic u…

> The tendency to call people like chefs or line cooks "unskilled labor" is disgusting.

I don't think this is disgusting. I don't believe it's meant to imply what I believe you think it implies. It sounds to me as if, in your life, this term "unskilled labor" may be used as a slur --- is this the case? It is not the canonical intent behind "skilled/unskilled labor" terminology.

"Unskilled labor" means you don't spend years on preliminary education before you can even enter the job market. It means you can hire a person with no prior training or pertinent education and expect them to be able to succeed given a reasonable training program and work ethic. Compare this to "skilled labor" where entry into the field is gated upon higher education (or perhaps apprenticeship).

I'm not disparaging line cooks. As you say, it's very high-pressure, and experience and drive are critical to competency in such an environment.

PS. I do also agree that "differentiation" and "skilled/unskilled labor" are orthogonal concepts.

Re: Why Restaurants Are So Fucked

#398

Post by neutronicus »

kevingadd wrote: post #256
sneak wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, this is a refutation of one of the author’s points: either you differentiate, or is is unskilled labor (and the iron law of wages is nipping at your toes). It’s possible to differentiate purely on marketing and not just food alone, too. But it’s madness to expect to make your money on volume in the restaurant biz and make any significant money without double-digit location counts and significant capital reserves;…

"either you differentiate, or is is unskilled labor" I don't think this assertion holds up, especially if you look at other industries. A car mechanic doesn't have much room for differentiation beyond "I can service more car brands" and "I'm cheaper" or "I'm faster". Anyone can match your offering as long as they can balance the trade-offs involved (sufficient resources, etc). That doesn't make being a car mechanic u…

Regardless of their skill, they're competing with the general, unskilled population, who are overwhelmingly capable of, if disinclined towards, cooking their own food or eating packaged food.

Re: Why Restaurants Are So Fucked

#399

Post by ido »

distances wrote: post #285
mgsk wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I honestly thought that was cheap, and that the answer to the problem was: charge more. I would pay $15 for that doner. Looks delicious.

And for $15 in Berlin you would expect a main course, glass of wine, and espresso in a decent sit-down place, tips included.

$15 CA is €9.50...The meal you describe would still cost more than that, maybe $20 CA & that would be the cheaper end of the spectrum (€7 Mittagsmenü, €3 wine, €1.5 espresso + 10% tip, then convert € to $CA).

If you're in central business locations in Mitte or Charlottenburg it would be more than that. That said you have very cheap options for Turkish, Arab or Vietnamese food in other districts like Neukölln. One of the best benefits I had when self-employed was the cheap & decent "ethnic" food options I had near the coworking space I chose in Neukölln vs having to go to the office in an expensive part of Mitte.

Re: Why Restaurants Are So Fucked

#400

Post by majewsky »

superzadeh wrote: post #339
hnick wrote: post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Now that just makes me wonder how the economics pans out in an Islamic country.

turns out the article is mostly focused on US restaurants; but I agree, German street food is not complete without a Pislner.

> German street food is not complete without a Pilsner

German here. For lunch, no one I know ever drinks alcoholic beverages (except maybe when going to a nice restaurant with the whole family on the weekend). And I don't think people are eating street food for dinner all that much, except maybe Döner. But even at Döner places, I don't think I've ever seen people drinking beer. They mostly don't drink anything, and some drink Ayran.

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