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Why Restaurants Are So Fucked

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241–250 of 498 posts

Re: Why Restaurants Are So Fucked

#241

> Drinks for instance cost us more than at the grocery store — but we can’t exactly go get 20 cases of pop per day, so we don’t have much choice. I didn't understand this. It may not be feasible to buy 100 cases of pop at a regular grocery store, but isn't Costco/Sam's Club set up for that? I do think it comes down ultimately to real estate prices. Major metros in North America have gradually become unaffordable for…

> All that profit margin is ending up in landlords' pockets. The landlord's costs go up, too.

Other than borrowing what costs do landlords have to bear? Certainly in the UK they seem to do nothing other than cream off any profitability you have generated at the next rent review.

Re: Why Restaurants Are So Fucked

#242

Quit whining about how your restaurant is going to die, you knew about the crap margins going into the restaurant business in the first place. Everyone is fucked. This is life.

I guess they also knew about 4 months of 0 to low business thanks to a global pandemic?

You know it doesn't cost much to be a bit nice to other humans...

Re: Why Restaurants Are So Fucked

#243

I'm starting to think commercial landlords need some competition from local governments. They could create a privately-run charter corporation that rents out small amounts of space to local businesses. Not rent control, but reasonable terms (3-6 month leases, instead of 10-year leases). There is too much NIMBYism and too many middlemen and archaic expectations in real estate for any mom and pop business to be viable.

> I'm starting to think commercial landlords need some competition from local governments.

> There is too much NIMBYism

If you could get rid of the NIMBYism, then the commercial landlords would compete with each other.

Re: Why Restaurants Are So Fucked

#244
post #199

If we want convenience and scale, we need more cafeteria style restaurants. Everything is cooked in bulk, you walk in and choose visually what you want. This is very popular in post Soviet countries. There doesn’t need to be a compromise on quality and taste either. Maybe presentation only. Won’t be able to get an instagram shot out of the cafeteria portion. Analogous to that are food markets in South East Asian coun…

Isn't this just a buffet?

Buffet for me means one of these restaurants where you pay a fixed price and then eat as much as you like. That's not the kind of restaurant that is common in Central/Eastern Europe(in fact those all-you-can eat restaurants have never caught on here)

Re: Why Restaurants Are So Fucked

#245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I want small restaurants as much as I want shoe makers instead of automated Nike factories. The way forward is not by enabling people who can serve 500 people/day to exist when we can have a robot serving 5,000. We want automation, we want people doing what they choose to do because we've automated away things they had to do, such as work for a living. The way to get there is more automation. Restaurant cooks/servers…

We have this today - McDonald’s, Chipotle, Jimmy John’s, Dominos, etc. Sure there are some humans, but there is also an optimized supply chain and in the case of McDonald’s, a fair bit of automation. > Restaurant cooks/servers are the equivalent of hand washing clothes Both are a skilled trade. Can you not tell the difference between the best meal you’ve ever eaten at a restaurant and a cup of fried cheese balls from…

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Re: Why Restaurants Are So Fucked

#246

> Drinks for instance cost us more than at the grocery store — but we can’t exactly go get 20 cases of pop per day, so we don’t have much choice. I didn't understand this. It may not be feasible to buy 100 cases of pop at a regular grocery store, but isn't Costco/Sam's Club set up for that? I do think it comes down ultimately to real estate prices. Major metros in North America have gradually become unaffordable for…

That part seemed strange to me. According to people I know that have worked in food/beverage industry, the most expensive part of a cup of Coke at a movie theater or fast food restaurant is the actual cup itself. The liquid inside the cup costs pennies.

Re: Why Restaurants Are So Fucked

#247

> Drinks for instance cost us more than at the grocery store — but we can’t exactly go get 20 cases of pop per day, so we don’t have much choice. I didn't understand this. It may not be feasible to buy 100 cases of pop at a regular grocery store, but isn't Costco/Sam's Club set up for that? I do think it comes down ultimately to real estate prices. Major metros in North America have gradually become unaffordable for…

> All that profit margin is ending up in landlords' pockets. The landlord's costs go up, too.

Not nearly as much. If at all.

This is what killed retail in the UK. Amazon certainly made a difference, but given a choice, some people actually enjoy mall shopping and eating.

But between huge hikes in business rates (commercial operating taxes) and rent increases, retail simply isn't as profitable as it was in the 90s.

The rent increases are pure greed and predatory extraction. There certainly hasn't been any correspondingly huge explosion of costs for landlords.

Re: Why Restaurants Are So Fucked

#248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I want small restaurants as much as I want shoe makers instead of automated Nike factories. The way forward is not by enabling people who can serve 500 people/day to exist when we can have a robot serving 5,000. We want automation, we want people doing what they choose to do because we've automated away things they had to do, such as work for a living. The way to get there is more automation. Restaurant cooks/servers…

Great restaurants are like art, in the eyes of patrons and creators. They will continue to find each other among the robotic masses.

True, and even if the meal is not "Tate modern", even a workday lunch can make me feel that someone actually cared and reinvigorate my soul in the middle of work. Most of the time I will choose to pay a premium in time or money instead of cheapest/convenient-est.

Re: Why Restaurants Are So Fucked

#249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think the passion argument is that valuable. For a LOT of people programming is their passion. Yet they command some of the highest salaries. The labor market doesn't care about passion. It will settle where it needs to based on demand and supply.

May I introduce you to the video games industry? While there are good paying jobs out there, I'd risk saying the vast majority of people working in games are hugely underpaid. At my first job I was literally told "yeah the pay is crap, but you get to work on big titles so it's fine". And it's not just demand and supply - we're having a very hard time recruiting for senior positions as there just aren't any candidates…

If you are not able to recruit then that pretty much proves you are underpaying, right? If you pay market price for devs you would not have trouble recruiting, well, devs.

Re: Why Restaurants Are So Fucked

#250
The article claims that 20 years ago, restaurant margins were 3x higher than today's 3-9% (e.g. 10-25%). I can't find evidence that restaurant margins were ever that massive. In fact the first few Google search results e.g. [1] confirms what I suspected: margins were low single digits even 10+ years back.

Therefore, this makes it less likely that there is a paradise lost of high restaurant margins we can return to, and more likely that some fundamental parameters that make the economic equilibrium of restaurant margins really low.

A guess for these parameters include:

- High competition: there are dozens if not hundreds of different restaurants I could walk to in 10 minutes (living in a US city).

- Low barriers to entry: a good minority of the population can learn how to operate an okay restaurant.

- A lot of owners get "passion utility" out of running a restaurant -- this means they are willing to be paid less in cash.

- Lastly but maybe most importantly, incredibly price sensitive customers. Just like the retailing industry, individuals are incredibly brutal about price. We can exhort day and night about the bad practices of Amazon, Walmart, boycott country X, but at the end of the day price wins. The author here is making a "boycott low margins" appeal which doesn't seem practical.

Restaurants will re-equilibriate. Likely a bunch will go out of business sadly. If social distancing requires there to be fewer customers, and customers are more cautious and eat out less, the bright side of the thin margins is that the restaurants will just pass this cost onto the customers since the ones that don't will be out of business.

Since all restaurants will automatically cost more resources (square foot per customer, overhead) to operate, they will have a common force uniting their upward push in prices too.

[1] https://www.forbes.com/sites/sageworks/2014/06/22/us-restaur...

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