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Why Restaurants Are So Fucked

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Re: Why Restaurants Are So Fucked

#211

Post by zdkl »

freeone3000 wrote: post #148
zwirbl wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But how does cashless pay make it cost a few bucks per serving more? If it is that, why would anyone offer cashless payment? Most Döner and other Street Foods in Austria are cash only, but that's not the reason a typically priced Döner costs ~5€

Cash-only means no card reader rental, which saves a couple hundred per month and at least 5% of every transaction, and possibly no internet bill, either... But you can't go cash-only because so few people carry cash, that our would drive out your sales.

5% per tx?! Remember, in Europe debit is way more common than credit and the fees are capped.

Re: Why Restaurants Are So Fucked

#212

Post by pbourke »

stock_toaster wrote: post #162
supernova87a wrote: post #137

I'll make another observation about the landscape of restaurants. You may notice that in Europe, Asia, the demographics of restaurants are noticeably different from the US. There are far more hole-in-the-wall mom-and-pop restaurants in those places compared to the US, running a small and seemingly profit-thin but subsistence restaurant for the neighborhood. Think of a suburban neighborhood in Madrid or Rome, where a…

Maybe food trucks will just become more pervasive. They _were_ pretty common in portland for a while, but not sure how many of them will survive. ;_;

This will no doubt be an unpopular opinion, but I’m not a fan of food trucks as an everyday dining experience. Not super impressed with the average food quality, and the “stand around waiting for 20 minutes” experience is also not ideal. Crowded food truck clusters are super annoying to me.

For the odd meal at a festival or park or whatnot - sure. But every day? not so much.

Re: Why Restaurants Are So Fucked

#213

Post by Tomte »

sleavey wrote: post #197

Something's up. In Germany in a normal city I can get a döner the same size as the one in the photo for €3 ($3.50?). It's not sourdough nor high quality protein but that can't explain the $7.50 difference. Edit: as the commenter below reminded me, it's actually more like €4-5 but my point stands.

That's uncommonly cheap. East Germany somewhere? Those Döner prices are usually found in Berlin itself.

I live in a cheap part of Germany, and our Döners have gone up from 4.50 or 4.70 Euros to about 5 Euros everywhere.

But let's not forget that even 5 Euros is an insane price for that much meat.

It works out because (a) the meat isn't great to begin with and (b) Dönerstuben are hotbeds for tax evasion. Many many Döners never make it into the cash register.

Re: Why Restaurants Are So Fucked

#214

Post by mikekchar »

I suspect some of these prices are generously rounded up. I think there is a very good possibility that the author doesn't actually track costs down to that level. They are probably looking at their overall costs and extrapolating downwards to the one item. Possibly a good review of their spending could save them a lot of money.

Yes, I realise it is Ottawa and CDN, but I lived in Ottawa for over 10 years and these prices don't really line up for me. $2.50 for 125g of protein. That's $2 per 100g -- without labour. I understand going for high quality, but there is high quality and there is needless spending. I should introduce them to some good butchers... Tofu should be bought from the tofu maker in Ottawa (forget the name). It is awesome (and cheap).

And $0.50 for sauce? I don't know what sauce they are using and the amount they are using, but donair sauce is primarily yogurt, mayonaise and sour cream... (condensed milk if you are going for Halifax style, apparently...) The ingredients should be on the order of $1-2 per liter.

The "toppings" appear to be cucumber, red pepper, red cabbage and lettuce. $0.50. Looking at the amount there, I'm guessing it should be about half that price.

Re: Why Restaurants Are So Fucked

#215

Post by simonebrunozzi »

I really dislike the way in which this article has been written - it reads as the typical piece from the "bro culture" that massively ignores the rest of the world. Besides this, which is not the point...

1) most restaurants in US and high-end Europe that survive and thrive do so by having big margins on alcohol. Their margins are not single-digits. (edit: just saw other comments mentioning this).

2) Many restaurateurs don't have the skill or knowledge to run a restaurant, and yet they do so because it's often one of the few options left (if you can't land a high-paying job, and don't like a low-pay one).

3) What she describes in the article is very US-centric. Most of Europe, or Japan (where I am currently sheltering before returning to the US soon), have a very different restaurant landscape. Most are small mom-and-pop shop, they have very low ops costs, and can do not too bad in a time like this one. I spoke with a few owners recently (in Italy and Japan) and they all confirmed it. They mostly don't have personnel, or if they do, their relationship is flexible enough that they can quickly react to 2-3 months of 50-70% less business than usual.

4) For the long term, nobody knows what's going to happen. Are we ever going back to pre-covid levels? Don't know. Probably not. Some restaurants will close, sure, as well as car dealers, etc. Good restaurateurs will manage to find a way, IMHO.

Re: Why Restaurants Are So Fucked

#216

Post by kinkrtyavimoodh »

supernova87a wrote: post #123

Unless you're a really special restaurant with significant differentiation capabilities and people come to eat at your place irrationally, here's a tip: Restaurants are never the ones making the money. They enable others to make money. Usually, landlords. And generally, be cautious about going into a business where people want to do it because it's their passion. It means you're going to competing with people who are…

I don't think the passion argument is that valuable. For a LOT of people programming is their passion. Yet they command some of the highest salaries. The labor market doesn't care about passion. It will settle where it needs to based on demand and supply.

Re: Why Restaurants Are So Fucked

#217

Post by zhoujianfu »

pbourke wrote: post #212
stock_toaster wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe food trucks will just become more pervasive. They _were_ pretty common in portland for a while, but not sure how many of them will survive. ;_;

This will no doubt be an unpopular opinion, but I’m not a fan of food trucks as an everyday dining experience. Not super impressed with the average food quality, and the “stand around waiting for 20 minutes” experience is also not ideal. Crowded food truck clusters are super annoying to me. For the odd meal at a festival or park or whatnot - sure. But every day? not so much.

Yeah, I was pretty excited about things like "Food Truck Tuesday" in our neighborhood, but it didn't take long to realize 90%+ of them are pretty bad, slow, and unhealthy.

Re: Why Restaurants Are So Fucked

#218

Post by sleavey »

Tomte wrote: post #213
sleavey wrote: post #197

Something's up. In Germany in a normal city I can get a döner the same size as the one in the photo for €3 ($3.50?). It's not sourdough nor high quality protein but that can't explain the $7.50 difference. Edit: as the commenter below reminded me, it's actually more like €4-5 but my point stands.

That's uncommonly cheap. East Germany somewhere? Those Döner prices are usually found in Berlin itself. I live in a cheap part of Germany, and our Döners have gone up from 4.50 or 4.70 Euros to about 5 Euros everywhere. But let's not forget that even 5 Euros is an insane price for that much meat. It works out because (a) the meat isn't great to begin with and (b) Dönerstuben are hotbeds for tax evasion. Many many Dön…

Niedersachsen. I usually get a falafel tasche which is €3 (same size) but you're right, maybe the equivalent sized döner is 1 or 2€ more. Still, there's a large gap in price I can't get my head around. Maybe your tax evasion point could be it, or maybe the author's business is in an unusually high rent area (shopping centre or big city or something).

Re: Why Restaurants Are So Fucked

#219

Post by pbourke »

alexashka wrote: post #180
supernova87a wrote: post #137

I'll make another observation about the landscape of restaurants. You may notice that in Europe, Asia, the demographics of restaurants are noticeably different from the US. There are far more hole-in-the-wall mom-and-pop restaurants in those places compared to the US, running a small and seemingly profit-thin but subsistence restaurant for the neighborhood. Think of a suburban neighborhood in Madrid or Rome, where a…

I want small restaurants as much as I want shoe makers instead of automated Nike factories. The way forward is not by enabling people who can serve 500 people/day to exist when we can have a robot serving 5,000. We want automation, we want people doing what they choose to do because we've automated away things they had to do, such as work for a living. The way to get there is more automation. Restaurant cooks/servers…

We have this today - McDonald’s, Chipotle, Jimmy John’s, Dominos, etc. Sure there are some humans, but there is also an optimized supply chain and in the case of McDonald’s, a fair bit of automation.

> Restaurant cooks/servers are the equivalent of hand washing clothes

Both are a skilled trade. Can you not tell the difference between the best meal you’ve ever eaten at a restaurant and a cup of fried cheese balls from Sonic? If not, then your post is entirely logical.

> technology has enabled humanity to do a great deal more with their life

More than cook good food for people? Are you surprised that there are people who dream from a young age of cooking, or cutting hair, or working on a construction site? That people have different skills, aptitudes and interests?

I’d rather see people flourish while doing what they love to do - especially if that thing is as central to the human experience as preparing a good meal.

Re: Why Restaurants Are So Fucked

#220

Post by TheSpiceIsLife »

gorgoiler wrote: post #189
alexashka wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I want small restaurants as much as I want shoe makers instead of automated Nike factories. The way forward is not by enabling people who can serve 500 people/day to exist when we can have a robot serving 5,000. We want automation, we want people doing what they choose to do because we've automated away things they had to do, such as work for a living. The way to get there is more automation. Restaurant cooks/servers…

Automating society paves the way for people to do creative work about which they truly care. One of those things is doing 20 covers of handmade tagliatelle every night.

> Automating society paves the way for people to do creative work about which they truly care.

Automation alone certainly does not guarantee this.

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