France offers each cyclist €50 for bike repairs once lockdown ends • Hacker News Board

Re: France offers each cyclist €50 for bike repairs once lockdown ends

#211

Post by karatestomp » Fri, May 01, 2020, 8:10 PM UTC

cultus wrote: post #69

ogre_codes wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bikes tend to degrade slowly over time if you don't do regular maintenance. Most people don't notice the slow decline until it's quite bad when suddenly it feels like an unreliable POS. Giving people who are just a little frustrated with their bike might go a long way to helping keep people from getting to that point at least once.

This doesn't get enough attention in cycling promotion. One of the absolute biggest reasons that people aren't on their bikes is maintenance. Wheels go out of true, shifting gets wonky, and it starts to look like an unreliable form of transport. Sturdier commuter bikes help a lot with this, but every commuter seems to think they need a bike with super-light wheels and a thin, weak 12-speed chain.

This is the only reason I don't ride anymore. I don't get why my complex car full of caustic liquids and burning them to drive a bunch of parts super fast can go tens of thousands of miles with nothing but oil changes and nothing breaks or doesn't work almost-like-new unless I run over a nail, but bikes? Ugh. Every time I go to get on it, something's broken. Flat tires constantly. Changing them sucks and takes forever (rear one, mostly). All the gear combos that ought to work never quite actually seem to. Something'll come loose during the ride, creating a safety hazard. And so on.

Give me a bike that doesn't break all the time or at least makes it super-easy and super-fast to fix any parts that do, and doesn't cost like $1,000 (why the actual hell should a decent one cost 1/20th as much as a lower-end car?! Think about what goes into both! How does that make any sense? 1/100 seems more reasonable, and for one that does not suck just like the $20,000 car probably does not suck remotely the same way a low-end bike does or it'd get lemon law'd away) and I'll go back to bike riding.

Re: France offers each cyclist €50 for bike repairs once lockdown ends

#212

Post by zerni » Fri, May 01, 2020, 8:14 PM UTC

remus wrote: post #186

Mediterraneo10 wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What I've learned while I lived in Amsterdam is that you want to invest ~30% of the value of your bike to purchase a bike lock. That advice predates the battery-powered angle grinder, which many bike thieves in Western Europe now use. Even the toughest, most expensive U-lock can be broken in about a minute with an angle grinder.

Having two locks can also be a good tactic, especially two locks in a different style e.g. a d-lock and a cable lock. The theory being that a thief would need to have two tools to steal your bike which means it's likely more hassle than other bikes that'll only have been secured with a single lock.

Founder of a bicycle insurer here and I can tell you that the only way to deter people is by parking in secure private or public spaces (never, ever semi-public) and by making your bike less attractive than the one next to it.

2 locks is indeed the standard in big cities. Also make sure they are sold secure gold rated or Art 3. Anything else is a waste of money. There are a few new lock types which are supposed to work better against angle grinders like Tex-lock or LitLok.

Because the average bike price is going up it also becomes interesting to steal parts. A decent handlebar + shifters are easy to sell individually. Companys like Hexlox or Pinheads are working on locks to tackle that.

Re: France offers each cyclist €50 for bike repairs once lockdown ends

#213

Post by Zenst » Fri, May 01, 2020, 8:16 PM UTC

jamil7 wrote: post #73

People in this thread are getting really hung up on the idea that someone with a bike == cycling enthusiast. In Europe a huge amount of people just own a bike. Often some beaten up thing they probably paid €30-200 for at a flea market or bike shop and use to commute or meet friends. Maybe it's fallen into a state where it's unrideable. The €50 is just a simple nudge for all those people to get it roadworthy so they c…

> The €50 is just a simple nudge for all those people to get it roadworthy so they can start using it again or sell it to somebody who will use it.

Certainly do more to increase bike usage and keep the momentum of usage going than any marketing thing.

What would be nice would be better incentive to use public transport and to not use cars, we have used the stick with taxes for a while, carrots like this can only work better. If they could get that balance right and maybe focus on cheaper public transport, incentivise ride sharing and bikes, more so bikes over electric as they are more accessible to the whole populus, not just those who can afford to cash in on incentives out of many peoples reach.

Been all well having subsidies for solar paanels, electric cars, but when the outlay and means to get those put those out of the reach for so many, let alone people who rent, or indeed walk or cycle. Perhaps the focus would perhaps incentivise using less electricity, incentivise public transport and bicycles, not just expensive hire bikes for hipsters in which most will end up being stolen by those who can't afford to access them via other means.

But this initiative as a one off is both timely and good on many levels as you say, getting unused bicycles into action over the whole disposable mentality of most objects, is fantastic. Also nice boom for the bicycle repair industry, though unsure how they have been impacted by things currently.

Re: France offers each cyclist €50 for bike repairs once lockdown ends

#214

Post by teekert » Fri, May 01, 2020, 8:17 PM UTC

jamil7 wrote: post #73

People in this thread are getting really hung up on the idea that someone with a bike == cycling enthusiast. In Europe a huge amount of people just own a bike. Often some beaten up thing they probably paid €30-200 for at a flea market or bike shop and use to commute or meet friends. Maybe it's fallen into a state where it's unrideable. The €50 is just a simple nudge for all those people to get it roadworthy so they c…

Sounds about right, the bike I use for my daily commute from the train station to the place I work needs things like new tires, new brakes, some new spokes etc about every 1-2 years. Usually totaling around 50 euro. For that amount a good bike repair shop can do a lot for a bike.

Re: France offers each cyclist €50 for bike repairs once lockdown ends

#215

Post by ZoomerCretin » Fri, May 01, 2020, 8:27 PM UTC

AdrianB1 wrote: post #203

So France is taxing people to give them money back; with the costs of the overhead (processing taxes and these rebates) one can safely assume it is overall a bad deal, the tax amount is higher than the rebate so the taxpayer is on the losing end, but happy for the "free stuff". There is no free meal.

> So France is taxing people to give them money back;

Yes, that's generally how governments work.

You're right. Obviously the better solution is for everyone to remember the dozens of tax credits for which they're eligible so they can receive their reimbursement months afterward.

Re: France offers each cyclist €50 for bike repairs once lockdown ends

#216

Post by Zenst » Fri, May 01, 2020, 8:30 PM UTC

com2kid wrote: post #121

NicoJuicy wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Often some beaten up thing they probably paid €30-200 for at a flea market or bike shop In Belgium, Belgian people buy mostly new ones in the range of 500-1000. People who don't earn much or students, buy the cheap/used bikes you mentioned. Electrical bikes are > 2000 € and pretty popular. In general, a whole family can bike together and it's very popular during the summer. We can bike were-ever we want during Covi…

One thing confused me about this. In major American cities bike theft is incredibly common, to the point that the police won't help at all. I've had bikes repeatedly stolen out of locked garages at home! I'd never buy a bike that was worth any reasonable amount of money, my commute pre-covid was a good candidate for an electric bike, but no way would I spend more than a 2 or 3 hundred dollars on something that will g…

Seems to be common in many countries, more so city sized area's as statistically, you will get a larger spectrum of humanity and the odds of having more bike thieves will be higher. Let alone, drunken students taking the wrong bike or the like.

Which is one of the reasons I don't have one, that and the types of drivers make it more dangerous, got better from my observations, but still, I'll walk more as unlike the country - not as far to go for most things.

That and if I'd endured a few thefts, I'd just end up getting angry and knocking up a bobytrapped bike and probably go too far and that's probably another reason for me to not own a bycicle. Though I did checkly suggest upon twitter once to the local police that they should have a bait bike, maybe has a spike in the seat that raises up. They liked the idea with supportive comment. But I'm sure it would not playout well legally. Besides, imagine some poor person, drunk for the first time, gets on the wrong bike by mistake. Though I'd probably build some form of electric shock into it, though again, I'd know I'd go too far.

Reminds me of an initiative in Amsterdam many decades back, 90's era iirc. The city had put a a large number of bikes in town for people to use, park up, free for all to use - early bike hire, ride and drop thing without any paying - just free use bikes. Coz what happened was people stole many of them, not everybody lived in Amsterdam and with that, maybe a good initiative, but needs to be done on a large scale to work.

Until then, i'd not buy anything new, second hand end-user type of affair as locks are just not that good and anything close to good would be more than the cost of a use and abuse bike.

Re: France offers each cyclist €50 for bike repairs once lockdown ends

#217

Post by Zenst » Fri, May 01, 2020, 8:36 PM UTC

zerni wrote: post #212

remus wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having two locks can also be a good tactic, especially two locks in a different style e.g. a d-lock and a cable lock. The theory being that a thief would need to have two tools to steal your bike which means it's likely more hassle than other bikes that'll only have been secured with a single lock.

Founder of a bicycle insurer here and I can tell you that the only way to deter people is by parking in secure private or public spaces (never, ever semi-public) and by making your bike less attractive than the one next to it. 2 locks is indeed the standard in big cities. Also make sure they are sold secure gold rated or Art 3. Anything else is a waste of money. There are a few new lock types which are supposed to wo…

Can you get GPS tracking systems that are reliable enough that insurance companies take note enough to discount if they are installed?

Re: France offers each cyclist €50 for bike repairs once lockdown ends

#218

Post by mytailorisrich » Fri, May 01, 2020, 8:37 PM UTC

soperj wrote: post #167

mytailorisrich wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This was not a counterpoint point at all. More like bike-shedding meets strawman. There has not been any counterpoint to my comments yet, actually. My guess is because people have an emotional and ideological take on this: Cycling is good so giving money to fund repairs of bike has to be a positive measure as well. Except that it is not based on any economic or rational reasoning. I'm pretty certain that the only res…

How? they aren't even giving people the money. It's literally just for repairs. If anyone here is having an emotional/ideological take it would be you.

That's not an argument...

"Just for repairs" is exactly my point.

This is what makes it quite obvious that it won't do anything regarding uptake of cycling. It's a windfall, people will obviously be happy and may take the opportunity to upgrade to more expensive parts, but that's about it. If they needed repairs they would have had them done anyway.

This is a political measure that has no practical value.

There was a public transport strike in France recently and that caused an uptake in cycling.

I expect the same after the end of the lockdown because people may still be wary of public transport.

This subsidy brings nothing.

Re: France offers each cyclist €50 for bike repairs once lockdown ends

#219

Post by asjw » Fri, May 01, 2020, 8:46 PM UTC

_jal wrote: post #159

jamil7 wrote: post #73

People in this thread are getting really hung up on the idea that someone with a bike == cycling enthusiast. In Europe a huge amount of people just own a bike. Often some beaten up thing they probably paid €30-200 for at a flea market or bike shop and use to commute or meet friends. Maybe it's fallen into a state where it's unrideable. The €50 is just a simple nudge for all those people to get it roadworthy so they c…

> the idea that someone with a bike == cycling enthusiast Very common rhetorical technique. Not everyone who does this is calculating; a lot of people just parrot what they hear. But the goal of the messaging is to make marginalize, to make it sound like some tiny group whining about their hobby, which inconveniences "normal" (car driving) people. Turn it into a game - start talking about the motorist lobby as just a…

This is true, but bike market in US (for example) amounts to 47 billions with a prediction of 75 billions in 2025

Car market is much richer but most of it comes from second-hand retail, which is practically non existent for bikes.

For comparison 45 billions is half of the market size of the tobacco industry and about the same size of the gun market.

Not bad for an hobby and more similar to a lobby itself.

Re: France offers each cyclist €50 for bike repairs once lockdown ends

#220

Post by SECProto » Fri, May 01, 2020, 8:47 PM UTC

cko wrote: post #180

ViViDboarder wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m from America, but I visited Copenhagen a few years ago and was amazed by how many bikes there were. On top of it, most bikes were parked with only a wheel lock and not chained to anything.

I was in a suburban ward in Tokyo two years ago and it didn't look like any bikes had locks on them. They were all identical bikes with large kickstands.

They do use locks, they are just tiny things that lock the rear wheel in place. They look like the brake mechanism. For example: http://i.ebayimg.com/images/i/252774835823-0-1/s-l1000.jpg

side note: the ubiquitous Japanese bike style you're referring to is called "mamachari"