Sorry for the naive question, but how does this fit into WinUI 3.0?
Yes
Rust/WinRT Public Preview
161–170 of 219 posts
Re: Rust/WinRT Public Preview
#162Earlier quoted context omitted.
F# is Microsoft's invented here version of Java
I thought C# was Microsoft's NIH version of Java?
Re: Rust/WinRT Public Preview
#163Earlier quoted context omitted.
Updated my post - I had forgotten C++/WinRT discarded the ^ syntax as we skipped C++/WinRT for our development as it suffers from many of the same problems of C++/CX.
> it suffers from many of the same problems of C++/CX The whole point of C++/WinRT is to be 100% standards-compliant C++. The guy who created it didn't even work at Microsoft at the time.
Re: Rust/WinRT Public Preview
#164Re: Rust/WinRT Public Preview
#165You have to hand it to Microsoft: It may be the only large software company that doesn't seem susceptible to not-invented-here syndrome. It's true that Microsoft historically has been an intensely competitive company, often trying to undermine competing technologies, e.g., with "embrace and extend" strategies. But whenever a competing technology -- whether a language, or a framework, or an application -- gains adopti…
Really?
Compelte opposite from my experience, Microsoft is re-inventing their own version of literally everything, even the smallest thing which doesn't have any strategic benefits. That shows me that they suffer extremely from not-invented-here syndrome.
For example, why does Microsoft need to invent their own Redis cache alternative (=AppFabric)? Why does Microsoft need to invent "Windows containers" which are incompatible with Docker Linux containers (aka normal Docker)? Why do they need to keep re-inventing Internet Explorer? Why does Microsoft need to re-invent their own search engine which nobody uses (Bing in case you have never seen/heard of it)? Why does Microsoft need to invent their own inferior Slack after already nuking Skype, Skype for Business, Yammer, etc.? Why does Microsoft need to invent their own Azure DevPops inferior alternative to GitHub, especially when they already bought the better tool, why compete with it with a shit product which makes every developers blood boil?
Re: Rust/WinRT Public Preview
#166https://github.com/robmikh/minesweeper-rs - I just love how they brilliantly avoided mixing up C++/COM things into this. Tough one to pull when you're dealing with bindings for a foreign language. The code looks fairly standard Rust (except maybe for the winrt::import that looks like Go?). > If you are familiar with Rust, you will notice this looks far more like Rust than it looks like C++ or C#. Notice the snake_cas…
How can we bring this to Linux/BSD? Specifically the GUI layer? I’ve lamented that Linux desktop world has been fragmented and alien as compared to other major environments. I used to think that things would have been better if we had chased GNUStep and source compatibility with macOS. I feel like the non-GUI userland in Linux is best in class and is effectively a given for any server deployment. But all the develope…
If the community has embraced a proper desktop eco-system around them, like the component vendors on other platforms, they aren't going to start now.
I surely don't see job offers for Linux/BSD GUI toolkits as I see for Apple, Microsoft and Google ones.
WSL is only for those that use Windows to target GNU/Linux, the demography that used to buy macOS to do the same.
For traditional Windows developers it doesn't really matter. PowerShell + Windows Terminal is where the action is.
Re: Rust/WinRT Public Preview
#167Earlier quoted context omitted.
Windows NT used to have a POSIX subsystem [1] that applications could use instead of the Win32 subsystem. So the Windows NT kernel is designed with the option of POSIX compatibility. Arguably the Subsystem for Linux is the current successor of the POSIX subsystem, providing POSIX compatible access to the kernel along with a POSIX compatible shell and UNIX commands. Obviously the Win32 subsystem isn't POSIX compatible…
That subsystem was just so they could tick off the “POSIX” box for Department of Defence.
GNU/Linux users should be happy that old Microsoft didn't bother to do that much with POSIX subsystem.
Had they actually invested into keeping it up to date, and many of us on PC land would never bothered with FOSS UNIX clones.
Re: Rust/WinRT Public Preview
#168https://github.com/robmikh/minesweeper-rs - I just love how they brilliantly avoided mixing up C++/COM things into this. Tough one to pull when you're dealing with bindings for a foreign language. The code looks fairly standard Rust (except maybe for the winrt::import that looks like Go?). > If you are familiar with Rust, you will notice this looks far more like Rust than it looks like C++ or C#. Notice the snake_cas…
How can we bring this to Linux/BSD? Specifically the GUI layer? I’ve lamented that Linux desktop world has been fragmented and alien as compared to other major environments. I used to think that things would have been better if we had chased GNUStep and source compatibility with macOS. I feel like the non-GUI userland in Linux is best in class and is effectively a given for any server deployment. But all the develope…
And it isn't just Gtk and Qt, outside of a very very small set of libraries (e.g. libcurl and Cairo), most other libraries do the same thing and most developers do not even seem to see that as a problem - except if you sit down and consider how much time is wasted in total by the users of those libraries (ie. the people who would actually make the desktops and the desktop applications) it should be obvious how much of an issue is (and even then, because many programmers prefer theoretically "clean" code and believe that the only way to do that is to rid existing working code and replace it with new -and unknownly broken- code, they have a very strong bias against even trying to accept this).
A very big reason Windows is dominant is because when something lands on the OS itself, chances are you'll be able to use it decades later. macOS much less so, but they have an army of engineers to keep up and even then as time moves on you see many people disliking how macOS breaks things (see the latest 32bit disaster).
Outside of a few influential outliers, like Linus himself or Keith Packard (who works on Xorg and Cairo) there aren't many that care about not breaking things. And IMO it is a bit disconcerting that it seems to be mainly the "old guard" of Linux developers that seem to care about this. I hope this is only because they've been around enough to realize that unnecessarily breaking things isn't a good idea, otherwise we can only expect things to become more broken over time (and Linus had this stance for decades, so it might not have anything to do with wising over the years).
Honestly, the move fast and break things culture that the web has fostered doesn't work for anything that has to do with other stuff people rely on.
But this is most likely also why you do not see that issue as much in the non-GUI world: most of the non-GUI stuff on Linux are either very long running projects (e.g. Bash, Perl, etc) that just do not break or very young projects that are mainly used for web work that will be thrown away in a couple of years or so, so any breakage wont be felt as much (and people working on those are used to broken things anyway). Any exception to that has ramifications that are felt for a long time - see Python2 vs Python3 as an example (...of what not to do - and note how many will even consider such breakage as natural and unavoidable, as if it was some sort of force of nature).
Unless this mentality and culture of breakage changes so that we can build stuff on solid foundations, things wont change.
Re: Rust/WinRT Public Preview
#169Earlier quoted context omitted.
It seems like they're doing all they can to get developers on their platform. Not to establish Windows developers like they have in the past, but to have others see Windows as just another platform. We're reaching a revolution from moving from x86 to ARM and I think the more Microsoft positions themselves like this, the less likely they are to be left in some weird compatibility limbo. As weird as this sounds, I feel…
It will be very difficult until Windows is POSIX-compatible. Whatever that means, I don't know. But it can't just be the Windows Subsystem for Linux. The whole OS needs to have POSIX compatibilities.
POSIX-certified systems conform to different POSIX standards. And most of them are of no use to the average developer such as AIX, HP-UX, Solaris.
The rest are largely compatible which means they are not compatible. And yes, that includes every single one of Linux distributions and FreeBSD.
Re: Rust/WinRT Public Preview
#170Earlier quoted context omitted.
That subsystem was just so they could tick off the “POSIX” box for Department of Defence.
That was one of many, then came SFU, followed by SUA. GNU/Linux users should be happy that old Microsoft didn't bother to do that much with POSIX subsystem. Had they actually invested into keeping it up to date, and many of us on PC land would never bothered with FOSS UNIX clones.
Simpler than Win32 + Unix portability in any case. Or in some cases, software would have been ported to Win32 at all.