Colleges at the breaking point, forcing ‘hard choices’ about education • Hacker News Board

Re: Colleges at the breaking point, forcing ‘hard choices’ about education

#791

Post by mgleason_3 » Fri, May 01, 2020, 7:36 AM UTC

prostoalex wrote: post #777

AnimalMuppet wrote: post #772

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If students were able to escape the debt by bankruptcy, the Treasury might not be allowed to buy the loans. Don't they have to invest in safe stuff?

Correct, the entire market for such loans would pretty much collapse - current yields are comparable to those of commercial real estate or high-yield corporate bonds, with none of the downside protections. Unsecured personal loans (that are subject to bankruptcy) are a valid asset class, coveted by LendingClub and some banks, but they require solid credit history and carry a higher interest rate, more aggressive repa…

It’s like this entire thread is from another planet and has no knowledge of the college loan program (student loans used to be dischargeable in bankruptcy like any other loan), its origin or even presidents Obama’s attempts to overhaul it and concerns that it was actually driving up the cost of college.

Re: Colleges at the breaking point, forcing ‘hard choices’ about education

#792

Post by nilsocket » Fri, May 01, 2020, 7:43 AM UTC

It's very interesting how the world comes rotating,

In ancient India, Education is considered as sacred and given utmost important.

Basic Ideology is that student who have dedicated his life to studies shouldn't suffer to learn. So education is free.

Basically university's are publicly funded and students also do other small works as compensation.

For food, students used to go and beg (One needs to stand with a bowl infront of someone's house, people will come and feed them).

Even though whole culture is destroyed due to colonization. Sadhus/Rishis continue to do it even now.

Re: Colleges at the breaking point, forcing ‘hard choices’ about education

#793

Post by nilsocket » Fri, May 01, 2020, 7:44 AM UTC

v4dok wrote: post #331

I always found the US model of colleges so outlandishly short-sighted. Problems of non-bankruptcy and wage slavery are just the very apparent outcomes that you would have a system like this. "Free" education is the only thing that separates us from a dystopian society of social immobility. And hence people in US defend it. I came from poor background and the fact that Uni education is free allowed me to, first of all…

It's very interesting how the world comes rotating,

In ancient India, Education is considered as sacred and given utmost important.

Basic Ideology is that student who have dedicated his life to studies shouldn't suffer to learn. So education is free.

Basically university's are publicly funded and students also do other small works as compensation.

For food, students used to go and beg (One needs to stand with a bowl infront of someone's house, people will come and feed them).

Even though whole culture is destroyed due to colonization. Sadhus/Rishis continue to do it even now.

Re: Colleges at the breaking point, forcing ‘hard choices’ about education

#794

Post by nilsocket » Fri, May 01, 2020, 7:45 AM UTC

Upvoter33 wrote: post #568

Not all colleges are the same. For example, at the UW-Madison, over half the students leave with do debt at all. There is a Bucky tuition promise so that any low-income person will have college paid for in entirety. All of the negative comments on here treat "college" as if it is one unified thing, when in fact the experiences across institutions (both educationally, as well as financially) are quite different. All o…

It's very interesting how the world comes rotating,

In ancient India, Education is considered as sacred and given utmost important.

Basic Ideology is that student who have dedicated his life to studies shouldn't suffer to learn. So education is free.

Basically university's are publicly funded and students also do other small works as compensation.

For food, students used to go and beg (One needs to stand with a bowl infront of someone's house, people will come and feed them).

Even though whole culture is destroyed due to colonization. Sadhus/Rishis continue to do it even now.

Re: Colleges at the breaking point, forcing ‘hard choices’ about education

#795

Post by nilsocket » Fri, May 01, 2020, 7:45 AM UTC

LaundroMat wrote: post #789

Isn't the real "hard" choice to simply forget about a for-profit educational system and make education a public service instead?

It's very interesting how the world comes rotating,

In ancient India, Education is considered as sacred and given utmost important.

Basic Ideology is that student who have dedicated his life to studies shouldn't suffer to learn. So education is free.

Basically university's are publicly funded and students also do other small works as compensation.

For food, students used to go and beg (One needs to stand with a bowl infront of someone's house, people will come and feed them).

Even though whole culture is destroyed due to colonization. Sadhus/Rishis continue to do it even now.

Re: Colleges at the breaking point, forcing ‘hard choices’ about education

#796

Post by digikazi » Fri, May 01, 2020, 9:06 AM UTC

mirimir wrote: post #765

chrisco255 wrote: post #518

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my mind the problem is the system itself was designed for a world that doesn't exist. When the supply of college degrees was low 50 years ago, sure, it paid to have a degree. But now that it has become commoditized, it's not that valuable. There's no supply / demand pricing mechanism to influence a student's major. The cost of tuition is mainly based on an arbitrary credit hour. No matter how worthless a course is…

Taxi drivers with literature degrees make more interesting conversation :)

Can confirm :)

Was once driven by a chap who had a very in depth knowledge of Turkish literature; I spent a good 25min listening to him talk about Orhan Pamuk and Elif Shafak, two writers I had recently read (and liked). Turns out the guy had been a lit professor at tertiary level back in Turkey. And here he was, driving a taxi on a rainy evening in a godforsaken town in the Midlands (UK).

Re: Colleges at the breaking point, forcing ‘hard choices’ about education

#797

Post by CathedralBorrow » Fri, May 01, 2020, 9:24 AM UTC

WalterBright wrote: post #654

lordnacho wrote: post #541

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The kind of knowledge you need to evaluate this is something that is normally taught in college. What high school teaches decision making under uncertainty, along with economic history and statistics? I mean sure we could try to teach kids this stuff, and I certainly aim to tech my kids, but it's not what's been done in the past at secondary school.

It's really too bad that high schools do not teach basic accounting, compound interest, and how the free market system works. Things people need to know to function in our society.

How does the free market system work?

Re: Colleges at the breaking point, forcing ‘hard choices’ about education

#798

Post by zamfi » Fri, May 01, 2020, 9:24 AM UTC

chrisco255 wrote: post #674

wolco wrote: post #616

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would having someone who knows the law and drives a taxi make it a waste of resources? Taxi drivers should be uneducated in your view. Why? How does that help society? Many lawyers need to drive taxis to get by. Being a lawyer doesn't mean instant riches unless you land at a high profile firm directly out of school. Studying law isn't a finite resource either.

"I never let schooling get in the way of my education." The problem with your view is you assume the only way to get educated is via academia. There is a lot of education when you become a mechanic, an electrician, a factory worker, a firefighter, etc. That is not academic. You learn on the job. There are also many certification courses for these fields that run outside of traditional college system. I believe in fre…

> There is a lot of education when you become a mechanic, an electrician, a factory worker, a firefighter, etc. That is not academic. You learn on the job.

This is true for every profession. Is there any job where you pop out of school ready to perform like an expert? Lawyers, doctors, scientists, etc. — all these folks learn to do their jobs on the job, despite their years or decades of training in academia.

> The college system is very expensive, it's heavily subsidized by the state even in the U.S. If it is not teaching people valuable skills that they will be using in their profession, then it is not serving it's purpose.

There is more to life, and to work, than preparing for a profession by learning profession-specific skills.

Re: Colleges at the breaking point, forcing ‘hard choices’ about education

#799

Post by spicymaki » Fri, May 01, 2020, 10:56 AM UTC

WalterBright wrote: post #654

lordnacho wrote: post #541

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The kind of knowledge you need to evaluate this is something that is normally taught in college. What high school teaches decision making under uncertainty, along with economic history and statistics? I mean sure we could try to teach kids this stuff, and I certainly aim to tech my kids, but it's not what's been done in the past at secondary school.

It's really too bad that high schools do not teach basic accounting, compound interest, and how the free market system works. Things people need to know to function in our society.

In high school I took economics, precalculus (which taught exponential growth), and history (which talked about financial crises of the past). The information was taught, but the problem is that there was no class to tie this information into life practice.

Re: Colleges at the breaking point, forcing ‘hard choices’ about education

#800

Post by blackrock » Fri, May 01, 2020, 11:10 AM UTC

gwd wrote: post #113

nimbius wrote: post #64

Disclosure: i never went to college, I went to a trade school. Colleges really only started scaring the heck out of me when I started enjoying my career. After spending a day wrenching in a garage, we'd hit miller time and head down to the Soapbox Bar and Grill. Over the span of a month or two ordering buckets and shooting pool I learned our bartender Javon had a masters in biology and his fiancee Cortisha who bussed…

> He had some massive college bills too and i didnt understand how those worked, but you cant get rid of them like you can a car loan. This is the thing that is really the most shameful and outrageous thing about the US system. Our entire K-12 educational system and our culture is set up to paint a college degree as a ticket to "the good life". Then an 18-year-old, potentially with parents who aren't great at math bu…

The thing that gets me, is why can’t that student loan be tax deducted?

If I pay $20k in taxes, then take that money to pay off the student loan first.

I don’t care about tax revenue to the government. And the federal government has the power to just print new money to pay off all their old debts anyways, like they are doing now, so they don’t really need my tax money.