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Colleges at the breaking point, forcing ‘hard choices’ about education

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Re: Colleges at the breaking point, forcing ‘hard choices’ about education

#771

Post by someguydave »

matwood wrote: post #642
jackcosgrove wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Colleges should not even offer loans for non-viable majors. Picking a major should not be like Indiana Jones picking which grail to drink from.

> Colleges should not even offer loans for non-viable majors. Oddly enough, a couple of the best programmers I have ever work with are now CTOs at their respective companies. One of them had an english degree and the other a music degree. Just yesterday there was an article here on HN about the importance of writing. So, which majors would you consider non-viable?

Would you agree that their college education was a waste of time and money?

Re: Colleges at the breaking point, forcing ‘hard choices’ about education

#772

Post by AnimalMuppet »

prostoalex wrote: post #769
gwd wrote: post #318

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The reason they aren't dischargeable is because what bank in their right mind would give a loan to an 18 year old with no collateral? If it's a bad bet for the bank , it must be far worse of a bet for young adults. That's the point -- right now we're essentially suckering millions of naive young adults into a life of wage slavery by giving them a "bet" which they are completely unequipped to evaluate; and many of t…

> If it's a bad bet for the bank, it must be far worse of a bet for young adults Contrary to popular perception, there's no robust private investor market for student loans. US Treasury is the predominant buyer. https://www.advisorperspectives.com/dshort/commentaries/2020...

If students were able to escape the debt by bankruptcy, the Treasury might not be allowed to buy the loans. Don't they have to invest in safe stuff?

Re: Colleges at the breaking point, forcing ‘hard choices’ about education

#774

Post by kart23 »

skwb wrote: post #254

My big prediction for education is that a lot of research universities are going to move large lecture halls online (think chem 101, etc) with labs, seminars, and discussions with lower number of slots to abide with moderate social distancing requirements. It provides the primary educational content of lecture, and provides in person opportunities that students desire. Once we see students and professors like this fo…

We would like this if they made us pay a lot less. Currently we are still paying the same amount in tuition, and some classes just provide a video a week and maybe a trivial assignment. It just feels awful and I dont learn anything from that type of experience.

Re: Colleges at the breaking point, forcing ‘hard choices’ about education

#775

Post by ashtonkem »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #50
sandworm101 wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> The adjunct professors get paid next to nothing. Let's give them a slight raise, fire 90% of the deans This is where the education industry can learn from the law schools. They are certainly ivory towers, but part of that tradition is that law school deans still ussually teach. My first year contracts prof was also the school dean. Law school deans remain largely 'first among many' rather than a separate professio…

> part of that tradition is that law school deans still ussually teach At my Uni, the administrators taught bullshit courses on personal development et cetera . Law schools have a unique culture. Teaching requirements are a product of their "first among equals" attitude, not a cause. Porting the mechanism without the culture is unlikely to solve the problem.

And creating a great culture is both difficult and requires constant upkeep.

Re: Colleges at the breaking point, forcing ‘hard choices’ about education

#776

Post by rb808 »

sandworm101 wrote: post #18
xhkkffbf wrote: post #2

I wish I could be more sympathetic to the college industrial complex, but they've been treat us poorly for years. Yes, I know it's our fault for demanding gold plated educational experiences and then going into crazy debt to finance it. But who wants to blame himself/herself? The job can be done better for much less. Indeed, it used to be much cheaper in the past when the dorms weren't so fancy and there were a bazil…

>> The adjunct professors get paid next to nothing. Let's give them a slight raise, fire 90% of the deans This is where the education industry can learn from the law schools. They are certainly ivory towers, but part of that tradition is that law school deans still ussually teach. My first year contracts prof was also the school dean. Law school deans remain largely 'first among many' rather than a separate professio…

What I dont understand about US law school is that you can't start directly as your first degree like every other country.

Re: Colleges at the breaking point, forcing ‘hard choices’ about education

#777

Post by prostoalex »

AnimalMuppet wrote: post #772
prostoalex wrote: post #769

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If it's a bad bet for the bank, it must be far worse of a bet for young adults Contrary to popular perception, there's no robust private investor market for student loans. US Treasury is the predominant buyer. https://www.advisorperspectives.com/dshort/commentaries/2020...

If students were able to escape the debt by bankruptcy, the Treasury might not be allowed to buy the loans. Don't they have to invest in safe stuff?

Correct, the entire market for such loans would pretty much collapse - current yields are comparable to those of commercial real estate or high-yield corporate bonds, with none of the downside protections.

Unsecured personal loans (that are subject to bankruptcy) are a valid asset class, coveted by LendingClub and some banks, but they require solid credit history and carry a higher interest rate, more aggressive repayment schedule, or both.

Re: Colleges at the breaking point, forcing ‘hard choices’ about education

#779

Post by bonestormii_ »

jonkho wrote: post #620
maps wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But barring shifting to a European model of college funding, I don't see the US allowing dischargeable loans, nor do I think they should, because the reality of it is that colleges won't reduce their rates nor increase their scholarships, they would just be completely out of reach of poor and middle class students. The reality is that the they should be out of reach to poor or middle class students TODAY. They are…

Here is an idea: let’s have colleges themselves act as the guarantor for a student loan. This way the incentives are aligned; if the colleges are poor judge of a students talent (and admit too many low performers), or having teaching standards are too weak will stand to lose money when a student cannot secure a job and repay their loans.

Wow. I really like this actually.

Re: Colleges at the breaking point, forcing ‘hard choices’ about education

#780

Post by dd36 »

jedberg wrote: post #179
gwd wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> He had some massive college bills too and i didnt understand how those worked, but you cant get rid of them like you can a car loan. This is the thing that is really the most shameful and outrageous thing about the US system. Our entire K-12 educational system and our culture is set up to paint a college degree as a ticket to "the good life". Then an 18-year-old, potentially with parents who aren't great at math bu…

> All of us should be regularly lobbying our lawmakers to make student loans dischargeable by bankruptcy, just like any other loan. The reason they aren't dischargeable is because what bank in their right mind would give a loan to an 18 year old with no collateral? They only guarantee they get that it will be paid back is the fact that it can't be discharged. Student loans would dry up overnight if they could be disc…

It was that way prior to 2005 and everything was fine.
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