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Colleges at the breaking point, forcing ‘hard choices’ about education

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Re: Colleges at the breaking point, forcing ‘hard choices’ about education

#211
post #64

Disclosure: i never went to college, I went to a trade school. Colleges really only started scaring the heck out of me when I started enjoying my career. After spending a day wrenching in a garage, we'd hit miller time and head down to the Soapbox Bar and Grill. Over the span of a month or two ordering buckets and shooting pool I learned our bartender Javon had a masters in biology and his fiancee Cortisha who bussed…

For the average college graduate, college is still a pretty good investment. I could write lots of comments about people without a college degree that live crappy lives and have trouble finding good paying jobs, and people with college degrees that live well and make a lot of money.

My prediction is that we'll see changes in the US system. The problem you're pointing out is the risk. Universities are the ones that IMO should be taking on the risk. If you graduate 3000 students a year, most will do okay and some won't, and that would be no big deal if college cost $800 a year. I predict that over the next couple decades we'll move to a system where you pay for college out of your earnings.

This would clean up another issue (not pointing any fingers with this). Colleges would nudge students into careers with better prospects. If they'd get paid less from students in certain majors, there'd be fewer of those majors. I could even see a system where "you're on your own" if you major in certain limited prospect fields. Universities that align their interests with those of the students will be the ones that thrive.

Disclosure: Professor for many years

Re: Colleges at the breaking point, forcing ‘hard choices’ about education

#212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Colleges should be shaking in their boots for the next generation, because there's going to be a whole generation of parents that suffered terrible college debt they couldn't pay off and will likely be telling their children it's just not worth it (as opposed to the previous generation that had cheap college and a great economy and pressured all their children to go for that 'guaranteed better life'). I made it throu…

Also a generation of potential parents who won't be having kids because they can't afford to, largely because of student loan and housing costs. That's already hitting - the incoming class of 2023 (matriculating 2019) is the first cohort born since 9/11, and is tiny. A number of colleges are facing bankruptcy because there just aren't enough students to go around. And it'll only get worse. Birth rates were depressed…

Can I read more about these statistics somewhere?

Re: Colleges at the breaking point, forcing ‘hard choices’ about education

#213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> All of us should be regularly lobbying our lawmakers to make student loans dischargeable by bankruptcy, just like any other loan. The reason they aren't dischargeable is because what bank in their right mind would give a loan to an 18 year old with no collateral? They only guarantee they get that it will be paid back is the fact that it can't be discharged. Student loans would dry up overnight if they could be disc…

The school admitting the student should co-sign the loan. If the school is confident in the value of their program they should assume the risk.

A funny idea, but also a great way to make sure that schools only offer majors with a high average post-grad salary.

Re: Colleges at the breaking point, forcing ‘hard choices’ about education

#214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> All of us should be regularly lobbying our lawmakers to make student loans dischargeable by bankruptcy, just like any other loan. The reason they aren't dischargeable is because what bank in their right mind would give a loan to an 18 year old with no collateral? They only guarantee they get that it will be paid back is the fact that it can't be discharged. Student loans would dry up overnight if they could be disc…

>colleges won't reduce their rates nor increase their scholarships, they would just be completely out of reach of poor and middle class students. If you let that run its course for a couple years then either the employers will have to relax their degree requirements or colleges will have to relax their price requirements. It'll be a game of chicken.

Or maybe they won't. Chronic underemployment has been a thing since at least 2008. Given a reality where there are simply more people than jobs that need doing, shutting the poor out of the education system seems like just another way to increase wealth inequality.

Re: Colleges at the breaking point, forcing ‘hard choices’ about education

#215
post #113

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> He had some massive college bills too and i didnt understand how those worked, but you cant get rid of them like you can a car loan. This is the thing that is really the most shameful and outrageous thing about the US system. Our entire K-12 educational system and our culture is set up to paint a college degree as a ticket to "the good life". Then an 18-year-old, potentially with parents who aren't great at math bu…

> All of us should be regularly lobbying our lawmakers to make student loans dischargeable by bankruptcy, just like any other loan. The reason they aren't dischargeable is because what bank in their right mind would give a loan to an 18 year old with no collateral? They only guarantee they get that it will be paid back is the fact that it can't be discharged. Student loans would dry up overnight if they could be disc…

> Student loans would dry up overnight if they could be discharged at bankruptcy.

There were student loans before 1976, when they became non-dischargeable.

Re: Colleges at the breaking point, forcing ‘hard choices’ about education

#216
post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> All of us should be regularly lobbying our lawmakers to make student loans dischargeable by bankruptcy, just like any other loan. The reason they aren't dischargeable is because what bank in their right mind would give a loan to an 18 year old with no collateral? They only guarantee they get that it will be paid back is the fact that it can't be discharged. Student loans would dry up overnight if they could be disc…

Student loans should absolutely be dischargeable. It will force tuition to drop to something affordable. It's advertised as a ticket to a good job and that's just false.

I addressed this in my comment. You'd end up with schools not lowering their prices, they would just be available only to the upper class.

Re: Colleges at the breaking point, forcing ‘hard choices’ about education

#217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> something that could also be had for free with national exams. That just causes the money to be poured into national exam test prep like in South Korea or China.

Some money maybe, but "the money"? Korean and Chinese families are paying 250K per kid in test prep?

It wouldn't be 250K USD due to lower incomes, but the average South Korean family spent 20% of their income on test prep and private tutoring back in 2011. Anecdotally, a friend in China is talking about his future with his girlfriend and they are looking at around that figure as well if they have kids.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/s-korea-tries-to-wrest-...

http://content.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,2094427...

https://www.scmp.com/news/china/society/article/2176377/chin...

Re: Colleges at the breaking point, forcing ‘hard choices’ about education

#218
post #61
post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

$15k/yr is not expensive. That's about the same as K-12. Most schools are $30-$60k/yr

>That's about the same as K-12 Are you forgetting the entirely free K-12 option here that most people grow up with? >$15k/yr is not expensive Ok....

$12k/student is the national average for K-12 spending

https://www.edweek.org/ew/collections/quality-counts-2019-st...

Re: Colleges at the breaking point, forcing ‘hard choices’ about education

#219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

maybe the dept of education should stipulate that 80% of college operating budgets be direct teaching/research costs, lest their fed loan largess be taken away. and progressively tax endowments, particularly targeting above a threshold of $100K/student or something like that. currently, the incentives are such that greedy people can just milk all the unrestrained cash flow coming into what should be a non-profit-orie…

Honestly, those endowments are part of why some schools like my alma mater are able to offer a no-loan commitment for need-based aid. Now, those calculations are still awfully rough on many middle class families, they tend to overestimate family contributions, but they're still really helpful for a lot of students.

Relatively few people can go to a school with endowment subsidized tuition. The ivys only started doing it because it looked bad for them to be sitting on piles of money and only allowing wealthy elites to attend.

Re: Colleges at the breaking point, forcing ‘hard choices’ about education

#220
post #64

Disclosure: i never went to college, I went to a trade school. Colleges really only started scaring the heck out of me when I started enjoying my career. After spending a day wrenching in a garage, we'd hit miller time and head down to the Soapbox Bar and Grill. Over the span of a month or two ordering buckets and shooting pool I learned our bartender Javon had a masters in biology and his fiancee Cortisha who bussed…

Thanks for sharing. Out of curiosity, how did you wind up on Hacker News?
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