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Colleges at the breaking point, forcing ‘hard choices’ about education

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Re: Colleges at the breaking point, forcing ‘hard choices’ about education

#81

Post by DataDaoDe »

basch wrote: post #66
xhkkffbf wrote: post #2

I wish I could be more sympathetic to the college industrial complex, but they've been treat us poorly for years. Yes, I know it's our fault for demanding gold plated educational experiences and then going into crazy debt to finance it. But who wants to blame himself/herself? The job can be done better for much less. Indeed, it used to be much cheaper in the past when the dorms weren't so fancy and there were a bazil…

>The job can be done better for much less. First and foremost, the lecture part of education is extremely inefficient. I know "watch the video" just doesn't work for some people, but charging for a live rendition of a repeated script, and then not valuing the person who watched the same recording equally, is absurd. Education needs to acknowledge a couple things. 1) Theres probably a "best" lecture or lecturer out th…

I've spent a fair amount of time and energy working and researching in this area. I'd agree with most of what you are saying. To point #1 I worked on a project that had almost the exact same design you mention (collaborate, git versioned edits of learning modules, etc.) - the biggest problem is the mounds and mounds of red tape and regulation that stifle any truly innovative solution. There are some movements for high school materials that are tackling parts of the problem (see: https://www.ck12.org/student/, https://www.khanacademy.org/), but it definitely needs to be on a much larger and national scale and extended to universities. I think, most all undergraduate courses could be done this way. If someone with enough leverage could ever push it through it would virtually completely remove textbook, materials, and lecture costs from the system and if done right, provide a treasure store of knowledge.

To #2 This is already a technique in education research its called flipped classrooms (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flipped_classroom).

To #3, I'm sure there are organizational structures you could implement that would augment every students network - there's a lot of stuff from management science you could try out.

Overall though I found it extremely frustrating trying to innovate in education because you really need to be able to implement radical changes but there are so many regulations at every level that you have to creep forward, hoping for minor incremental improvements when what you need is complete system overhauls. This was extremely frustrating for me.

Re: Colleges at the breaking point, forcing ‘hard choices’ about education

#82

Post by clairity »

johncalvinyoung wrote: post #28
clairity wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

maybe the dept of education should stipulate that 80% of college operating budgets be direct teaching/research costs, lest their fed loan largess be taken away. and progressively tax endowments, particularly targeting above a threshold of $100K/student or something like that. currently, the incentives are such that greedy people can just milk all the unrestrained cash flow coming into what should be a non-profit-orie…

Honestly, those endowments are part of why some schools like my alma mater are able to offer a no-loan commitment for need-based aid. Now, those calculations are still awfully rough on many middle class families, they tend to overestimate family contributions, but they're still really helpful for a lot of students.

that's a tried-and-true sales trick--inflate the price and then offer a discount. calibrate your discount to extract maximum economic value from each customer individually.

it's best if schools have to compete on price vs. value, and for students to leave school with a little debt to know the value of what they bought. it's when both price and debt are unconstrained that you need such tricks in the first place.

Re: Colleges at the breaking point, forcing ‘hard choices’ about education

#83

Post by md2020 »

renewiltord wrote: post #65

Universities have to do all this proxying for a good education because they are unable to demonstrate the primary value: making you valuable to society. If they did, they could simply publish "Median income distribution for graduating students by degree achieved". They currently sell a common lie: that there is a roundedness or completeness to education. This is common wisdom and false.

FWIW, my university does do this. The college of engineering here publishes a yearly report that breaks down statistics about the graduating class (post-graduation plans, salary statistics, etc.) for each major.

Re: Colleges at the breaking point, forcing ‘hard choices’ about education

#84

Post by fatnoah »

runawaybottle wrote: post #7
xhkkffbf wrote: post #2

I wish I could be more sympathetic to the college industrial complex, but they've been treat us poorly for years. Yes, I know it's our fault for demanding gold plated educational experiences and then going into crazy debt to finance it. But who wants to blame himself/herself? The job can be done better for much less. Indeed, it used to be much cheaper in the past when the dorms weren't so fancy and there were a bazil…

I’m still waiting for someone to explain to me how 15K+ in tuition a year is acceptable. No sympathy here for the college industry.

> I’m still waiting for someone to explain to me how 15K+ in tuition a year is acceptable.

My town currently spends about $12,635 per pupil for public schools. Other towns in the state spend over $20k. Compared to that, $15k tuition seems right in line.

Re: Colleges at the breaking point, forcing ‘hard choices’ about education

#85

Post by HarryHirsch »

nimbius wrote: post #64

Disclosure: i never went to college, I went to a trade school. Colleges really only started scaring the heck out of me when I started enjoying my career. After spending a day wrenching in a garage, we'd hit miller time and head down to the Soapbox Bar and Grill. Over the span of a month or two ordering buckets and shooting pool I learned our bartender Javon had a masters in biology and his fiancee Cortisha who bussed…

our bartender Javon had a masters in biology

That's de-risking, de-skilling and outsourcing. Back then, in the last century, the US and Europe had a functioning chemical industry. Unfortunately, information technology took off, and investment banking discovered that returns are better with Facebook than in Pharma, consequently that's where the jobs are now. Also, mergers & acquisitions took off in the same time. Why invest in research when you can buy up someone else's research? Industry research does not exist any longer in the sciences. The sciences are not a good proposition any longer if you want to make a living.

Re: Colleges at the breaking point, forcing ‘hard choices’ about education

#87

Post by GnarfGnarf »

beams_of_light wrote: post #46

I'm using Blendle, but can't find this story there.

As I understand Blendle, they only offer some stories from their list of publishers. NYT, WSJ, WaPo, LA Times, etc. will pick & choose what they allow Blendle to offer. Top-tier stories will not be shared through Blendle, and will be reserved for direct subscribers.

It makes Blendle less attractive to me.

Re: Colleges at the breaking point, forcing ‘hard choices’ about education

#88

Post by kazen44 »

Mediterraneo10 wrote: post #71
bambataa wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've never understood why students would even want the college to be so involved in their student life. Allocate some buildings to the student body, get them to organise themselves and throw a bit of a cash at them. I think that's a good balance. I studied at a university with quite a focus on "college life" and it was nice to feel part of something but we didn't need to organise our social lives.

> I've never understood why students would even want the college to be so involved in their student life. If I understand the American system, there is pressure from parents as well. The students might not want the college to be so involved in their student life, but many parents would be unwilling to allow their children to attend an institution that is not highly focused on keeping them safe, to the point of treati…

which is just weird because well, at around the age of 18, most people should be able to handle themselves and they are not children anymore.

Re: Colleges at the breaking point, forcing ‘hard choices’ about education

#89

Post by renewiltord »

md2020 wrote: post #83
renewiltord wrote: post #65

Universities have to do all this proxying for a good education because they are unable to demonstrate the primary value: making you valuable to society. If they did, they could simply publish "Median income distribution for graduating students by degree achieved". They currently sell a common lie: that there is a roundedness or completeness to education. This is common wisdom and false.

FWIW, my university does do this. The college of engineering here publishes a yearly report that breaks down statistics about the graduating class (post-graduation plans, salary statistics, etc.) for each major.

This is wonderful. I checked your profile and couldn't tell where you go. Would you mind sharing?

Re: Colleges at the breaking point, forcing ‘hard choices’ about education

#90

Post by EvanAnderson »

chadash wrote: post #25

I think it's time to decouple education from all of the other things tied to colleges. When I studied abroad in Australia, things like the gym or meal plans were available, but not "bundled in" to your tuition. The idea of tying competitive sports teams to a university would be laughable. We need to remove all of the "excess" stuff from higher education and get back to the core of education and research. Sure, things…

I've volunteered at a summer youth leadership camp held at a local state university since 1998. In the last 10 years the host university has undertaken massive construction of more "luxury appointed" dorms, recreational complexes, a huge basketball arena, and upscale dining halls. The justification was that it was necessary to do these things to compete with other colleges. I can't say that I've followed the cost of their tuition and fees, but given the amount of money spent on construction I can't imagine the curve is flat.
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