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U.S. Economy Shrinks at 4.8% Pace, Signaling Start of Recession

bloomberg.com

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Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks at 4.8% Pace, Signaling Start of Recession

#641

Post by stcredzero »

kilroy123 wrote: post #602
stcredzero wrote: post #479

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only social unrest that has happened so far have been the protests about wanting to lift or ease restrictions on states, and they were widely panned as a bunch of nutjobs. It's easy to look down on people lower on the socioeconomic ladder. They're still human beings. They've been given this raw deal: For the greater good, you will now give up your job for an indefinite period of time, with no prospect of finding…

I completely agree with you, but... How about don't vote in leaders that only care about helping out their rich buddies then? The Scandinavian countries have moved to pay all payrolls to keep people paid during all this madness, instead of just bailing out large debt holders.

I completely agree with you, but... How about don't vote in leaders that only care about helping out their rich buddies then?

Tone deafness in the media and the social and governmental leadership of any country is a key reason why demagogues and sociopaths get into power. This has been the case across time and cultures.

The Scandinavian countries have moved to pay all payrolls to keep people paid during all this madness, instead of just bailing out large debt holders.

Watch Louis Rossman's YouTube coverage of the US programs as a potential recipient/applicant. As a small business owner, he has a front seat to the incompetence of US lawmakers. It's the same kind of thing which smells like grandstanding incompetence, which also afflicted the "banking reforms" post 2008. The laws aren't written by and for people who actually know how things work.

Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks at 4.8% Pace, Signaling Start of Recession

#642

Post by slfnflctd »

ghaff wrote: post #348
slfnflctd wrote: post #323

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It makes sense if the car tends to last 350k+ miles and has only been gently used. There are at least a few models that have pretty consistently been getting up to that or higher before major repair is needed since 2010 or so. I will say I think quality hybrids (again, gently used) are worth more than a lot of their counterparts on this point.

Depends where you live and how much you drive. While the situation is much much better than it used to be, cars in places like the Northeast still tend to start getting serious rust damage after 10 years or so.

That is definitely true. The salt-rust issue should play a huge role in resale value. I grew up in an area with this situation, and I knew a lot of people who would only buy used cars sourced from southern states because of it.

Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks at 4.8% Pace, Signaling Start of Recession

#643

Post by gimmeThaBeet »

thebruce87m wrote: post #470
ChrisRR wrote: post #386

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It still surprises me that America has such a culture of leasing cars they can't afford for hundreds, if not thousands of dollars a month. Here in the UK if you said you were going to buy a car, most people would instantly assume you mean second hand. There's not much of a culture of buying or leasing new cars here, and even less of leasing cars that you really can't afford (outside of petrolheads anyway)

“82% of new cars in Britain are bought using relatively new "PCP" loans, which let drivers pay less than the full value of the car.” - https://www.businessinsider.com/uk-car-finance-pcp-mortgage-... So while I agree if someone says they are buying a “new car” it just could mean “new to them” I do think a lot of people do lease. I see a lot of young people with new BMWs etc, probably paying with money that they will r…

I don't get how that isn't basically just a lease? Except that the buyer gets something that looks like a call option that sounds like it's nearly guaranteed to be below expected (normal, maybe not in rough times) value?

Mainly because I've never seen a lease where the dealer doesn't ask you if you want to buy it.

Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks at 4.8% Pace, Signaling Start of Recession

#644

Post by stcredzero »

mcphage wrote: post #637
stcredzero wrote: post #479

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only social unrest that has happened so far have been the protests about wanting to lift or ease restrictions on states, and they were widely panned as a bunch of nutjobs. It's easy to look down on people lower on the socioeconomic ladder. They're still human beings. They've been given this raw deal: For the greater good, you will now give up your job for an indefinite period of time, with no prospect of finding…

> It's easy to look down on people lower on the socioeconomic ladder. They're still human beings. They've been given this raw deal: For the greater good, you will now give up your job for an indefinite period of time, with no prospect of finding like employment elsewhere. You have no choice, and if you refuse, you are a horrible person and in some cases you may face civil and criminal consequences. The man in front o…

The man in front of the protest to ease restrictions in my mid-sized city was a wealthy local real estate magnate.

That still doesn't change the equation for those who aren't real estate magnates and were living paycheck to paycheck before the crisis.

You either listen to all people and meet them where they're at, or you give fuel to demagogues. (Who might be rich magnates.)

Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks at 4.8% Pace, Signaling Start of Recession

#645

Post by Frondo »

at-fates-hands wrote: post #568
vasillevski wrote: post #462

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You say this like it’s a good thing? This is reflective of an economic system that isn’t functioning well. All this points to is the fact that income is highly concentrated in the hands of a few, and that opportunity is very limited and unequally distributed. I’m sure that went right over your head when you proudly decided to trumpet that nugget of information. Alas, I’m sure I’m just shouting into a void of ignoranc…

I never said it was a good thing, its merely a statistic. > opportunity is very limited and unequally distributed Sorry, I don't subscribe to this idea. I came from a blue collar family. Both parents work long hours to provide for our family. I was working when I was 12. I didn't own anything of value through HS or college. I worked several jobs to pay my way through college. I have lived a big chunk of my life below…

Only one remark: "tell the guy ... that I'm ignorant"

You can have a wealth of first-hand experience but that doesn't mean it translates to opportunities or behaviors of groups. So yes, you can be ignorant.

As someone else pointed out, class mobility is extremely low and income inequality is extremely high in the US. For your situation, the plural of anecdote isn't data.

Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks at 4.8% Pace, Signaling Start of Recession

#646

Post by mcphage »

stcredzero wrote: post #644
mcphage wrote: post #637

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's easy to look down on people lower on the socioeconomic ladder. They're still human beings. They've been given this raw deal: For the greater good, you will now give up your job for an indefinite period of time, with no prospect of finding like employment elsewhere. You have no choice, and if you refuse, you are a horrible person and in some cases you may face civil and criminal consequences. The man in front o…

The man in front of the protest to ease restrictions in my mid-sized city was a wealthy local real estate magnate. That still doesn't change the equation for those who aren't real estate magnates and were living paycheck to paycheck before the crisis. You either listen to all people and meet them where they're at, or you give fuel to demagogues. (Who might be rich magnates.)

It definitely doesn't, but it does change the tenor and content of those protests.

Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks at 4.8% Pace, Signaling Start of Recession

#647

Post by GcVmvNhBsU »

WillPostForFood wrote: post #632
dragonwriter wrote: post #579

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The top 20% of earners also handle close to 90% of the tax burden, Only if you only count the income taxes, and ignore other (mostly regressive) payroll, excise/sales, and other taxes at the federal and state levels.

Including all those taxes, the top 20% still pay 66% of all taxes. https://theintercept.imgix.net/wp-uploads/sites/1/2019/04/ch...

The top 20% also owns 86% of the wealth, so it seems like they are still coming out ahead.

Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks at 4.8% Pace, Signaling Start of Recession

#648

Post by lotsofpulp »

jl6 wrote: post #624
lotsofpulp wrote: post #566

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The businesses don't disappear because the doors close for a few months. People will still have their colleagues’ contact information to be able to re hire and start again.

Some businesses can be easily put on hold and restarted later. I’d wager it’s not that easy for most.

I’d wager those businesses are already classified as essential and kept operating. And if not, that can be a separate issue the government can tackle, but there’s no need for it to be conflated with the issue of keeping people fed and housed.

Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks at 4.8% Pace, Signaling Start of Recession

#649

Post by jessaustin »

WillPostForFood wrote: post #632
dragonwriter wrote: post #579

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The top 20% of earners also handle close to 90% of the tax burden, Only if you only count the income taxes, and ignore other (mostly regressive) payroll, excise/sales, and other taxes at the federal and state levels.

Including all those taxes, the top 20% still pay 66% of all taxes. https://theintercept.imgix.net/wp-uploads/sites/1/2019/04/ch...

Well, they do have all the money. Besides, the 19.9% shouldn't complain to the 80%. Rather, they should complain to the 0.1% whose lobbyists write the tax code in the first place. We can be sure they had their reasons to set up this level of progressive taxation rather than some other level.

Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks at 4.8% Pace, Signaling Start of Recession

#650

Post by stcredzero »

mcphage wrote: post #646
stcredzero wrote: post #644

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The man in front of the protest to ease restrictions in my mid-sized city was a wealthy local real estate magnate. That still doesn't change the equation for those who aren't real estate magnates and were living paycheck to paycheck before the crisis. You either listen to all people and meet them where they're at, or you give fuel to demagogues. (Who might be rich magnates.)

It definitely doesn't, but it does change the tenor and content of those protests.

it does change the tenor and content of those protests.

If people who shouldn't have political power gain it by listening to the neglected, the proper course of action isn't to denigrate the people. Take back that power by listening.

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