Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

YouTube removed a viral video of two doctors calling for an end to quarantine

theblaze.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

501–510 of 714 posts

Re: YouTube removed a viral video of two doctors calling for an end to quarantine

#501

Post by hartator »

notechback wrote: post #490
ColanR wrote: post #447

It's too bad that we are so quick to silence those who we perceive as wrong. Apparently, the doctors in the video were using incorrect facts; I wouldn't know, the video is gone. Discussion is being prohibited, wherever there is an approved expert to say the viewpoint is wrong. If dissention is labelled dangerous, and dissenting voices on important subjects are silenced, then we are creating an echo chamber with no re…

There is a difference between silencing dissenters in a scientific discussion and silencing dissenters trying to push a viewpoint to the masses that may or may not result in tens of thousands of deaths if it gets sufficient traction. This is exactly the kind of thing Russian propaganda always tries to achieve: provide confusion and semi-legitimate experts spreading false narratives so that the population does not bel…

> There is a difference between silencing dissenters in a scientific discussion and silencing dissenters trying to push a viewpoint to the masses that may or may not result in tens of thousands of deaths if it gets sufficient traction.

It's the oldest trick in the book. Millions will die! You can't seek the truth in an non-transparent environment.

> This is exactly the kind of thing Russian propaganda always tries to achieve

How two Californian doctors talking about their own data and the reading of other counties data Russian propaganda?

> See eg the EU's take on it: https://euvsdisinfo.eu/

Form the website: "EUvsDisinfo publications do not represent an official EU position"

Re: YouTube removed a viral video of two doctors calling for an end to quarantine

#502

Post by fwn »

zouhair wrote: post #476
blisterpeanuts wrote: post #361

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Suppose you're right. Does it justify censorship? Fauci can defend himself, and the docs are welcome to express their opinions. What gives Google/YouTube the justification to silence them?

> Does it justify censorship? Yes, they are wrong and they will cause deaths if they are allowed to peddle more unsubstantiated bullshit. This is not a philosophical debate, people are literally dying.

> This is not a philosophical debate, people are literally dying.

That's a bit like "let's not think about what we're doing, people are literally dying".

The gravity of the situation only increases the need for evaluation of our behavior as a society.

Public discourse isn't an optional nice-to-have in times in which everything is fine, it's one of the cornerstones of democratic societies.

Re: YouTube removed a viral video of two doctors calling for an end to quarantine

#503

Post by javajosh »

ColanR wrote: post #447

It's too bad that we are so quick to silence those who we perceive as wrong. Apparently, the doctors in the video were using incorrect facts; I wouldn't know, the video is gone. Discussion is being prohibited, wherever there is an approved expert to say the viewpoint is wrong. If dissention is labelled dangerous, and dissenting voices on important subjects are silenced, then we are creating an echo chamber with no re…

If it is one smart person with an open mind and time to investigate, fine. But what we have is a mob with no time, interest, or capability to investigate, and every incentive to find a reason to end isolation. Most importantly, there is a very real deadly outcome if they get it wrong. Under those conditions taking the video down is the right move.

And yes, the quality of the content matters here. It is well-known that misinformation is incredibly hard to correct once the horse has left the stable, so low quality argument can do plenty of damage even if its easily debunked. It doesn't sound like this video was mere dissent, and I for one would be satisfied if the video was replaced, for example, with an annotated transcript pointing out the factual errors in the content.

Re: YouTube removed a viral video of two doctors calling for an end to quarantine

#504

Post by lucio »

balls187 wrote: post #402
dilap wrote: post #393

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Should they have that right though? YouTube is owned by a Google, a massive, publicly-traded corporation with near-monopoly power. Are the best interests of society served by allowing it to be governed in an authoritarian, totalitarian fashion, or would it make sense, considering it is one of the most powerful mediums of speech ever created, to let it be governed by rules somewhat approximating the much-lauded, tradi…

> Should they have that right though? Yes. Free speech does not grant the right for anyone to say whatever they want. The US Surpreme court has, as a matter of case law, ruled in specific areas to restrict free speech. These two doctors, under the pretense of medical expertise, provided false information, and used Youtube to do it. Google being a large massive publicly traded entity does not have any bearing as to it…

Free speech DOES grant the right for anyone express opinions without interference from the government. SCOTUS limitations for freedom of speech are very narrow, and being wrong or against the mainstream opinion is not one of them.

Re: YouTube removed a viral video of two doctors calling for an end to quarantine

#505

Post by RonanTheGrey »

notechback wrote: post #493
john_minsk wrote: post #477

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Great. Don’t have problem with that. Why do you?

Why would you not have a problem with the anti-vax movement spreading disinfo and getting kids killed of diseases that had been eradicated in the country?

"Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be bought at the price of chains and slavery?"

Chains and slavery being a bit overstated, but hey that's the quote.

In the long term, those few lives matter less than the billions - trillions - uncountable quadrillions - who benefit from free, Liberal cultures (capital L, not lowercase). This is not because the ends justify the means; they do not -- it is because the freedom to choose, even your own death by Darwin, is a pillar of a free society.

Re: YouTube removed a viral video of two doctors calling for an end to quarantine

#506

Post by AnthonyMouse »

wvenable wrote: post #492
autoexec wrote: post #427

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "Free speech" does not mean you also are entitled to a platform and an audience. "Free speech" is a right but also an ideal. When speech is being silenced (de-platformed) or people (the audience) are forbidden from hearing it even when they want to, it violates those principles. > YouTube is not a public service. Youtube is a powerful and unique resource without meaningful competition which I think does give them a…

> "Free speech" is a right but also an ideal. The problem with the ideal is that most people have it wrong. "Free speech" is not speech without consequences. Nobody here thinks that speech should be criminalized but that doesn't mean you have the right to be heard. If nobody wants to associate with you because of your speech, that's their right. You are not entitled to a soapbox.

You are entitled to a soapbox. You're not entitled to an audience. Each person chooses for themselves, not one party choosing for others.

Re: YouTube removed a viral video of two doctors calling for an end to quarantine

#507

Post by legolas2412 »

surfpel wrote: post #480
teh_infallible wrote: post #473

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you feel threatened by voices you disagree with? Aren’t dissenting voices and debate pillars of our democracy?

It’s all fun and games until your kid gets polio...

You can allow antivax movements to voice their flawed arguments and yet make vaccines mandatory.

You can allow them to speak yet consider their opinions worthless.

Re: YouTube removed a viral video of two doctors calling for an end to quarantine

#508

Post by joshuamorton »

rsynnott wrote: post #320
wesammikhail wrote: post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fuck this reply and everything it represents. I truly detest this madness and everyone who believe in such warped nonsense. One giant pile of argument from authority bullcrap. This idea that only narrow set of domain experts can speak up about something is blatantly insane. You are not an epidemiologist either, so by the same token, you don´t have the right to criticize anything anyone says, yet here you are. So mayb…

> epidemiologists are not statisticians Err... what was it you think epidemiologists do?

For anyone wondering, a quick google search suggested that while "epidemiology" isn't a degree program anywhere, most epidemiologists have biostatistics degrees or background, which are a thing and do, in fact, involve statistics.

Re: YouTube removed a viral video of two doctors calling for an end to quarantine

#509

Post by AlwaysForward »

RonanTheGrey wrote: post #497
notechback wrote: post #490

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a difference between silencing dissenters in a scientific discussion and silencing dissenters trying to push a viewpoint to the masses that may or may not result in tens of thousands of deaths if it gets sufficient traction. This is exactly the kind of thing Russian propaganda always tries to achieve: provide confusion and semi-legitimate experts spreading false narratives so that the population does not bel…

> There is a difference between silencing dissenters in a scientific discussion and silencing dissenters trying to push a viewpoint to the masses that may or may not result in tens of thousands of deaths if it gets sufficient traction Interesting. So.... forbid all speech that could result in a revolution, then? Say... An American one? Or maybe a Spring one. Or a French one. I mean.. that's the standard you set up. I…

The French revolution was the worst thing to happen to humanity since the birth of the renaissance.

Re: YouTube removed a viral video of two doctors calling for an end to quarantine

#510

Post by AnthonyMouse »

shkkmo wrote: post #421
AnthonyMouse wrote: post #346

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Regardless of if this video should be censored, these guys are awful scientists. This is the exact reason why it shouldn't be censored. Because if their science is bad then it needs to be available for people who know better to tear it to shreds. If you take it down then the story can't be "this is why they're wrong" because what they said isn't available anymore, so a rebuttal isn't believable because you can't te…

Yet if you look at the comment sections for this video, there isn't anyone tearing it to shreds. This isn't something I have been able to confidently form an opinion on; it's a hard topic. I think we will be strugging with how to balance bias, deliberate misinformation and freedom of speech for a long time. But I think at the very least, YouTube needed to put up prominent disclaimers and links to limit the harm that…

> Yet if you look at the comment sections for this video, there isn't anyone tearing it to shreds.

I count several detailed criticisms of it just in this thread. Do none of them have a YouTube account?

Why don't the people proposing to censor it post their own rebuttal?

> I think at the very least, YouTube needed to put up prominent disclaimers and links to limit the harm that this content can cause.

Which is totally different. Leaving the video up while posting a prominent link to a rebuttal isn't censorship, it's more speech.

Post reply on HN