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YouTube removed a viral video of two doctors calling for an end to quarantine

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Re: YouTube removed a viral video of two doctors calling for an end to quarantine

#481
post #447

It's too bad that we are so quick to silence those who we perceive as wrong. Apparently, the doctors in the video were using incorrect facts; I wouldn't know, the video is gone. Discussion is being prohibited, wherever there is an approved expert to say the viewpoint is wrong. If dissention is labelled dangerous, and dissenting voices on important subjects are silenced, then we are creating an echo chamber with no re…

You can view the full video here: https://www.turnto23.com/news/coronavirus/video-interview-wi...

Couple of their quick mental math when asked questions were wrong but most of it is sane and matches other sources.

Re: YouTube removed a viral video of two doctors calling for an end to quarantine

#482
The problem with unrestricted free speach is that it's not the person who is right who is heard, but the person who has the biggest pockets. It becomes even easier if the message is a simple answer to a complex problem.

The noise with deep pocket can just drown out the voice of reason. So it ends in the right of the strongest.

Re: YouTube removed a viral video of two doctors calling for an end to quarantine

#483

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Suppose you're right. Does it justify censorship? Fauci can defend himself, and the docs are welcome to express their opinions. What gives Google/YouTube the justification to silence them?

> Does it justify censorship? Yes, they are wrong and they will cause deaths if they are allowed to peddle more unsubstantiated bullshit. This is not a philosophical debate, people are literally dying.

People are literally dying all the time, and still, every single day, twice as many people are born as have died from COVID-19 over its entire course, worldwide.

Re: YouTube removed a viral video of two doctors calling for an end to quarantine

#484

> We're actually seeing the patients. Dr. Fauci hasn't seen a patient for 20 years... it's like the general contractor vs the sub. He's not seeing patients, he's in an ivory tower, and we have a world of respect for him, he's a world reknown immunologist, two different, he's an academic, and we've dealt with academics all of our lives... but academics and reality are two different things. > Coronavirus lasts on plast…

> Coronavirus lasts on plastics for 3 days, and we're all sheltering in place. Where'd you get your water bottles from? Costco. Where'd you get that plastic shovel from? Home Depot. Those are fomites and carries of disease... and if I swab things in your home, I would likely find COVID-19.

> When you go to Del Taco and you get a plastic bag or piece on your burrito from someone not wearing a mask who's just wiping their arm on your thing, do you think you're protected from COVID?

The point isn't that chance of infection goes to zero. Yes of course there are still transmission vectors, the point is to reduce the transmission rate. Even if there is a small chance of catching covid from your water bottles or dell taco, those chances are also reduced relative to no lockdown because the people who would be transmitting that virus to you are less also less likely to be sick.

> We wear masks in an acute setting to protect us. We're not wearing masks, why is that? 'Cuz we understand microbiology, we understand immunology, and we want strong immune systems. I don't want to hide in my home, develop a weak immune system, and come out and get diseased.

Then these guys are selfish, putting their own desire for health above the needs of their more vulnerable familty, friends, neighbors and fellow citizens.

> Is the flu less dangerous than COVID? Let's look at the death rates, no it's not. They're similar in prevalence and in death rate.

Covid outpaced the standard flu season's death total in less than half the time and did it in the face of the most draconian public health measures in a century (or ever depending on your location).

Re: YouTube removed a viral video of two doctors calling for an end to quarantine

#485
post #329
post #272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How is it fundamentally dubious? It's fine to have a trusted organization to make decisions. It's not fine to place that organization above all criticism. I think their statistical methods are suspect and likely wrong. I don't think they should be censored and the act of censoring them is actively harmful if you don't want people taken in by misinformation, then we need to actively produce good information. There i…

having an independent organization does not imply being above criticism. even the government is not above criticism. what matters is how likely it is that the criticism will actually result in a change if there was a wrong decision made. as it stands, google is already above all criticism because they are to big to be approached by any individual wronged by their decisions. an independent organization would be much m…

> having an independent organization does not imply being above criticism

It will be if we have no problem deplatforming all criticism.

Re: YouTube removed a viral video of two doctors calling for an end to quarantine

#486

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "Free speech" does not mean you also are entitled to a platform and an audience. "Free speech" is a right but also an ideal. When speech is being silenced (de-platformed) or people (the audience) are forbidden from hearing it even when they want to, it violates those principles. > YouTube is not a public service. Youtube is a powerful and unique resource without meaningful competition which I think does give them a…

> When speech is being silenced (de-platformed) This is a ludicrous equivalency; by this standard YouTube is also “silencing (deplatforming)” people who don’t have computers because it’s not giving them resources to help them make and post videos. Deplatforming is not silencing. The default state of an individual in society is no platform. People who want platforms should build them. > Personally, I think that educat…

These doctors have good points and common sense. They aren't motivated by money and power like most media, the WHO, and youtube.

Re: YouTube removed a viral video of two doctors calling for an end to quarantine

#487
post #393

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Should they have that right though? YouTube is owned by a Google, a massive, publicly-traded corporation with near-monopoly power. Are the best interests of society served by allowing it to be governed in an authoritarian, totalitarian fashion, or would it make sense, considering it is one of the most powerful mediums of speech ever created, to let it be governed by rules somewhat approximating the much-lauded, tradi…

> Should they have that right though? Yes. Free speech does not grant the right for anyone to say whatever they want. The US Surpreme court has, as a matter of case law, ruled in specific areas to restrict free speech. These two doctors, under the pretense of medical expertise, provided false information, and used Youtube to do it. Google being a large massive publicly traded entity does not have any bearing as to it…

> These two doctors, under the pretense of medical expertise, provided false information, and used Youtube to do it.

Not according to the article. The local TV station interviewed them and the local TV station put the video on YouTube.

Presumably as they are licensed to practice medicine in the State of California they do have some expertise greater than those of us without MDs so it's hardly 'pretense'. Is wearing scrubs on camera a ridiculous rhetorical device? Yes. Were these guys wrong on some facts? Absolutely. Were they wrong on policy recommendations? Much, much harder to say.

What's astonishing though is the ease with which people seem to be willing to turn over their civil liberties and place themselves under house arrest.

We have to sit through three years of the echo chamber telling us Donald Trump is a fascist, and then finally when our freedom to assemble is literally stripped from us by the police power of the state, people are complaining that he's not fascist enough. Geez.

Re: YouTube removed a viral video of two doctors calling for an end to quarantine

#488

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not a case of right or left leaning bias here - Glenn Beck pushes conspiracy theories and things that just aren't true. There's a difference between political leanings and full on crackpot journalism.

Examples?

Congratulations to you for avoiding the Glen Beck hysteria, but if you have to ask for Glen Beck examples of him pushing conspiracy theories, you’re really out of the loop.

This guy used to sit on Fox News prime time and draw elaborate web of connections on a chalkboard. On national network television. He lost advertisers for the stuff he was doing, and his program was jet fuel for the Tea Party movement (which became the modern alt right).

Feel free to Youtube Glen Beck on Fox News, hopefully none of it is censored because it’s a real trip if it’s the first time you’re watching it.

Re: YouTube removed a viral video of two doctors calling for an end to quarantine

#490
post #447

It's too bad that we are so quick to silence those who we perceive as wrong. Apparently, the doctors in the video were using incorrect facts; I wouldn't know, the video is gone. Discussion is being prohibited, wherever there is an approved expert to say the viewpoint is wrong. If dissention is labelled dangerous, and dissenting voices on important subjects are silenced, then we are creating an echo chamber with no re…

There is a difference between silencing dissenters in a scientific discussion and silencing dissenters trying to push a viewpoint to the masses that may or may not result in tens of thousands of deaths if it gets sufficient traction. This is exactly the kind of thing Russian propaganda always tries to achieve: provide confusion and semi-legitimate experts spreading false narratives so that the population does not believe the government anymore - or simply doesn't believe anyone anymore.

See eg the EU's take on it:

https://euvsdisinfo.eu/eeas-special-report-disinformation-on...

https://euvsdisinfo.eu/

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