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YouTube removed a viral video of two doctors calling for an end to quarantine

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Re: YouTube removed a viral video of two doctors calling for an end to quarantine

#431

Post by joshuamorton »

throwawaysea wrote: post #395
joshuamorton wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And that's despite nearly nationwide shelter in place measures. If those hadn't been implemented, the toll could well be an order of magnitude higher.

And yet Sweden is doing fine without such orders: https://www.cnbc.com/2020/04/22/no-lockdown-in-sweden-but-st... Sorry but there are other paths to containing the virus without resorting to draconian measures, especially when those measures are indiscriminate blunt instruments (for example applying same restrictions to urban and rural areas).

Sweden's first case with community spread was from the end of February, so it's been spreading for a month or two less than in, say, Germany.

Despite that Sweden has the same per capita infection rate and a per capita death rate of around 3x Germany's.

And that's still with some social distancing requests, there just isn't a stay at home order.

So yes, unless Sweden tightens restrictions, I'd expect to see it hit an order of magnitude harder than nations doing more restrictions, despite still having some.

Re: YouTube removed a viral video of two doctors calling for an end to quarantine

#432

Post by pmarreck »

jdkee wrote: post #403
dionian wrote: post #305

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't matter. Why is YouTube policing speech? If anything, this will give "incorrect ideas" more attention than letting them be heard.

That does not logically follow if the general public does not have the expertise to evaluate public health policy discussions and decisions.

> if the general public does not have the expertise to evaluate public health policy discussions and decisions

But you're now asking people to trust experts, which in 2020 is apparently crazy-talk

Re: YouTube removed a viral video of two doctors calling for an end to quarantine

#433

Post by Gibbon1 »

balls187 wrote: post #402
dilap wrote: post #393

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Should they have that right though? YouTube is owned by a Google, a massive, publicly-traded corporation with near-monopoly power. Are the best interests of society served by allowing it to be governed in an authoritarian, totalitarian fashion, or would it make sense, considering it is one of the most powerful mediums of speech ever created, to let it be governed by rules somewhat approximating the much-lauded, tradi…

> Should they have that right though? Yes. Free speech does not grant the right for anyone to say whatever they want. The US Surpreme court has, as a matter of case law, ruled in specific areas to restrict free speech. These two doctors, under the pretense of medical expertise, provided false information, and used Youtube to do it. Google being a large massive publicly traded entity does not have any bearing as to it…

The way I think of it is. Say my company makes high voltage transformers. And I get wind that one customer is using them to manufacture interrogation devices. I sure as shit can tell them to take their business elsewhere.

Re: YouTube removed a viral video of two doctors calling for an end to quarantine

#434

Post by javagram »

mikem170 wrote: post #114
javagram wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your argument assumes that coronavirus deaths will stop tomorrow, and also that mitigation measures used to reduce deaths from coronavirus via social distancing don’t affect the evaluation of whether it is “deadly”. It feels like you didn’t engage with the data I presented at all. (Edit: removed sentences that would only apply if you had read my other post) Edit 2: if your only argument is that COVID-19 is not worse…

I apologize, there's a lot of numbers flying around and I probably did miss the thrust of what you were saying. I shouldn't have focused on the comparison with the 1918 flu. Plus, as someone pointed out, drawing conclusions from the numbers we have so far in comparison with the 1918 flu is difficult. I've been working with NYC numbers. The link you gave was for NY State deaths. NYC has reported about 12.3k deaths [1]…

Thanks.

Yes I believe your rough math is matching others that are reported by the scientific literature which is estimating around 0.7% infection fatality ratio (IFR) for this virus, 4*0.14 would be on the low end of estimates but within the consensus estimate. Seasonal Flu IFR is estimated to be between 0.04% and 0.1%, so by your numbers the coronavirus is, at a minimum, 5 times more deadly than seasonal flu.

I also agree this virus will become a part of life in the future. Although some Asia-Pacific countries seem to have successfully controlled the spread (Vietnam, Taiwan, etc) the only way for them to keep it from spreading will be to maintain a border closure until a vaccine can be developed to safely give their populations herd immunity.

In the west, we let the virus run free for two months and it’s probably too late to get it under control no matter what we do now.

Re: YouTube removed a viral video of two doctors calling for an end to quarantine

#435

Post by jerry1979 »

forgot_my_pwd wrote: post #88
gmfawcett wrote: post #47

This is lazy reporting. It's not wrong, but there's no insight here. No critical assessment of the claims made in the video nor the Youtube T&C, just a few clickbaity excerpts and some reaction comments. Compare with this excellent piece by the CBC on a somewhat similar viral video in Canada: https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/saskatchewan/u-of-r-biology-p...

But that misses the point. The very fact that a few people at Google/Youtube have the power to censor whomever they want for whatever reason they choose is a problem in itself. Are the doctors in the video saying untruths or misrepresenting data? I think what they said in the video was eminently reasonable. But perhaps I'm wrong. Luckily we have the freedom to publicly critique their claims - assuming our critiques a…

This is their math. See if you can see whats wrong...

  39,500,000 -- Pop. of California
  12.00%     -- Pct. of people who tested positive for covid
  4,740,000  -- Estimated cases (Pop. * Pct.)
  1,227      -- Reported deaths
  0.03%      -- Estimated chance of dying from covid in California (deaths/estimated cases)

Re: YouTube removed a viral video of two doctors calling for an end to quarantine

#436

Post by walterbell »

beart wrote: post #407
walterbell wrote: post #294

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How to download the comments for video? Or the "live chat" on some videos?

Honest question - what longtime value is there to youtube comments? The way these are structured seems to inherently make them useless.

If they are downloaded, they can be indexed by various parameters.

Re: YouTube removed a viral video of two doctors calling for an end to quarantine

#437

Post by programmarchy »

axguscbklp wrote: post #69

I wonder why Google's decision-makers decided to censor stuff that doesn't follow WHO guidelines. Is it because they actually care about the mass of the population? Is it because they want to minimize the economic damage caused by the crisis? Is it because they're scared to get sick themselves? Is it because they want to avoid possible legal liability? Is it due to political pressure on them? Is it because they want…

There is no doubt a confluence of the factors you’ve put forth. Also, I’d imagine if videos like these encouraged some kind of anti-lockdown rioting, that would be very bad for business; there’s an incentive to maintain social stability. During this time I’d be willing to bet people are watching YouTube more than ever before.

Re: YouTube removed a viral video of two doctors calling for an end to quarantine

#438

Post by asdfasgasdgasdg »

briefcomment wrote: post #337
asdfasgasdgasdg wrote: post #288

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's gone from 78.8 to 78.5 for males over the last few years, most people think due primarily to the opioid epidemic. And the population of NYC is barely growing, maybe a percent or two a year. These factors you mention aren't even in the same neighborhood as being large enough to explain the data you're reacting to. https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/SPDYNLE00INUSA

The proportion of the NY population that is over 60 looks like it generally trends higher as time passes. I would imagine a greater proportion are near death as time proceeds because of this. http://alloveralbany.com/images/capital_region_population_ag... https://www1.nyc.gov/assets/planning/download/pdf/planning-l...

So, this is an anti-pattern in conversation, where you come up with an alternate hypothesis to explain something, and then someone tells you your hypothesis is wrong, and then you just jump to another one, and make them work to disprove that as well. What do you have against the obvious explanation?

If you have another hypothesis, it would be better to at least do the napkin math and show that you've put in a tiny amount of work, rather than just tossing out random far-fetched stuff. For example, this new hypothesis of yours is even more absurd than the last one, because the relative demographics of New York have not changed much in the past year. It could not explain a large spike in deaths this year.

Re: YouTube removed a viral video of two doctors calling for an end to quarantine

#439

Post by ViViDboarder »

foolinaround wrote: post #190
CamperBob2 wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's look at the death rates, no it's not. They're similar in prevalence and in death rate. That statement alone is justification for removing their video as a public health hazard.

There's lots and lots of bad stuff there... The question is should youtube be censoring it? if so, why this, and not others?

Yes. They should for others as well. If something is provably false and puts lives at risk, I’d say they have a moral obligation to “censor” it.

Re: YouTube removed a viral video of two doctors calling for an end to quarantine

#440

Post by blackrock »

Come on folks. There is no magic to this. The science is already known by now.

Lock down hard for 4 weeks (or 28 days). The virus only has a safe maximum 21 day incubation period (the normal is 14 days).

By that point, you will know who is infected.

Get them isolated. You don’t need to do any blood tests, or PCR tests, or MRI tests. Get everyone’s temperature taken daily, like a census.

For those that are showing signs of a fever, you isolate them in a LEVEL 1, general population makeshift ward.

For those that have more severe cases, like difficulty breathing, you isolate them in a LEVEL 2 quarantine zone.

For those that need hospitalization and invasive intubation, they go into the LEVEL 3 zone and get ICU care.

Every state can set up multiple cities and regions for these facilities. Transport the sick people to the given area, so that they can get the care they need. Then transport them home, when they are recovered.

This sounds expensive, but it sure as hell, is far cheaper than the $4 Trillion to $10 Trillion dollar bailouts, that the Republicans are handing out to their buddies, like candies.

Can you imagine? Trump just got another $569 Million [1] for his wall. Sneaky bastard. How does this even help fight the coronavirus? By keeping out infected Mexicans? (Well.. maybe..)

For everyone else, they must stay at home. Groceries will need to be pre-packaged, and delivered to them. Or they drive up to the grocery store to pick it up, and someone drops it into their trunk, with minimal human contact.

All of the infections in the community must be happening at supermarkets, or public buses, subways, trains, and airplanes. Places where there is minimal ventilation happening, and you can walk into someone’s death cloud, or breath in their infected air. And make everyone wear masks.

The basic transmission science is already known. Now, we need to just do a hard 4 week lockdown and make it happen.

[1] https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2020/04/sorry-hospitals-trum...

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