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YouTube removed a viral video of two doctors calling for an end to quarantine

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Re: YouTube removed a viral video of two doctors calling for an end to quarantine

#321

Post by LanceH »

davorak wrote: post #292
ab_testing wrote: post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point here is that youtube is not a harbinger of scientific truth. These doctors present their findings with their collected data to come to this conclusion that the according to them, this virus is not dangerous and the quarantine should end. Does Youtube also censor videos where plumbers present an incorrect way to install a toilet that can lead to backflow and flooding. The point to make here is that Youtube i…

> The point to make here is that Youtube is NOT the New England Journal of Science and should not act like one for just one topic Nor is cnn, fox news, msnbc, etc. They all exercise editorial control over what goes on their channel however. The rules by which youtube exercises its editor control is its guidelines and policies from my understanding.

> The rules by which youtube exercises its editor control is its guidelines and policies from my understanding.

Which may be the result of its execs being dragged before congress about "fake news" -- hence the allegations of censorship.

Re: YouTube removed a viral video of two doctors calling for an end to quarantine

#322

Post by TechBro8615 »

orangecat wrote: post #140
eloff wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By that logic can they remove videos claiming masks are effective at protecting yourself and society from the virus? Because I seem to recall the WHO (or I think it was the CDC?) blatantly lying about the efficacy of masks in order to keep them available to health professionals. I think this underscores why I'm so uncomfortable with YouTube doing censorship (or anyone doing it). The official narrative is not always r…

Because I seem to recall the WHO (or I think it was the CDC?) blatantly lying about the efficacy of masks in order to keep them available to health professionals. WHO is still lying, CDC has done a 180 and now recommends masks. So I suppose we should expect https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tPx1yqvJgf4 to get taken down anytime now.

Good; I just reported it for “harmful and dangerous acts.”

Re: YouTube removed a viral video of two doctors calling for an end to quarantine

#323

Post by SquishyPanda23 »

forgot_my_pwd wrote: post #88
gmfawcett wrote: post #47

This is lazy reporting. It's not wrong, but there's no insight here. No critical assessment of the claims made in the video nor the Youtube T&C, just a few clickbaity excerpts and some reaction comments. Compare with this excellent piece by the CBC on a somewhat similar viral video in Canada: https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/saskatchewan/u-of-r-biology-p...

But that misses the point. The very fact that a few people at Google/Youtube have the power to censor whomever they want for whatever reason they choose is a problem in itself. Are the doctors in the video saying untruths or misrepresenting data? I think what they said in the video was eminently reasonable. But perhaps I'm wrong. Luckily we have the freedom to publicly critique their claims - assuming our critiques a…

> The very fact that a few people at Google/Youtube have the power to censor whomever they want for whatever reason they choose is a problem in itself.

In the US, the media is almost entirely run by private corporations.

If you feel that is a mistake it's probably a better use of your time advocating for better funding and more independence for public media than criticizing corporations for exercising oversight of their platforms.

Re: YouTube removed a viral video of two doctors calling for an end to quarantine

#324

Post by saltedonion »

busymom0 wrote: post #151
saltedonion wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because dominant media platforms have a huge crosshairs on their backs, with different groups criticizing they aren’t doing enough to remove misinformation, and at the same time, they are too heavy handed. The consensus is that the platforms have to do SOMETHING, because if not, it becomes a national security issue and regulation is going sweep through the industry. At the same time, the platforms can’t be seen as en…

WHO isn't independent. They have been looking out for China's talking points for a while.

Precisely, hence the brownie points from China.

Re: YouTube removed a viral video of two doctors calling for an end to quarantine

#325

Post by kolanos »

0xff00ffee wrote: post #304

The number of people in this thread defending the right to spread billionaire-funded lies, propaganda, and misinformation under the guise of free-speech is drop-dead astonishing. Like, I can see why civilization could fail on a massive scale if a critical mass of the population starts to believe the opposite of the truth, and declares war on those trying to explain.

Are you referring to Bill Gates?

Re: YouTube removed a viral video of two doctors calling for an end to quarantine

#326

Post by reagank »

twomoretime wrote: post #255
ceejayoz wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Are the doctors in the video saying untruths or misrepresenting data? Yes, they are. https://www.dailynews.com/2020/04/28/california-doctors-with... > But public health experts were quick to debunk the doctors’ findings as misguided and riddled with statistical errors — and an example of the kind of misleading information they are forced to waste precious time disputing. > The doctors should never have assumed that…

Why does the UW doctor's opinion supercede that of the doctors in the removed videos? The answer of course is ideology. These are two experts giving two different opinions based on different sets of similarly poor evidence. The fact that a doctor goes against consensus does not necessarily mean he's wrong and it certainly does not warrant censorship, all else considered. Youtube is making a dangerous mistake.

It has nothing to do with opinions, and it has nothing to do with ideology, except insofar as these two doctors were motivated by their ideology to profoundly misunderstand or misrepresent statistical sampling.

It’s not one side thinks this, the other side thinks that, it’s that their video is factually wrong, and in being wrong encourages dangerous behavior.

Re: YouTube removed a viral video of two doctors calling for an end to quarantine

#327

Post by koolba »

brink wrote: post #184
necubi wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

New York has >50x deaths per capita as SF, which sheltered-in-place a week earlier (and which had been steadily moving in that direction for two weeks prior).

This could be a different story a year from now, where NY ripped the band-aid off and achieved herd immunity long before SF, and SF took a much longer time resulting in a longer economical slump and still similar deaths over a longer period of time. I'm not saying it will be that way, but it's worth considering.

And even that could be skewed by the more at risk populations fleeing for the relative safety of the suburbs and then dying there.

Re: YouTube removed a viral video of two doctors calling for an end to quarantine

#328

Post by walterbell »

willis936 wrote: post #319
walterbell wrote: post #296

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some people will now work to minimize damage to society by private platforms. Google can apply arbitrary rules, but they can't claim that their decisions represent "society". There was no consultative process where society elected Google or society was asked for their opinion on censoring this particular video. In fact, "society" has immediately republished the video elsewhere. In fact, the Streisand effect will guar…

You’re likening the deletion of a video on a private free video hosting site to state-sponsored book burning? The Streisand effect is a blip in popularity here. The point is to not validate dangerous fantasies of people who are unwilling or incapable of behaving in a safe and logical manner. Google succeeded in this endeavor, despite what people paying close attention to things might argue about in side channels.

> You’re likening the deletion of a video on a private free video hosting site to state-sponsored book burning?

I'm likening the effect on the respective audiences. The book burning aspect is for the video's comments, a.k.a. debate by many members of society.

As for Google being private, they employ a sizable number of lobbyists to influence public policy.

Re: YouTube removed a viral video of two doctors calling for an end to quarantine

#329

Post by em-bee »

Natsu wrote: post #272
threatofrain wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is it fundamentally dubious? If you don't trust Google to make a category of social or moral judgments, you're either trusting the market or you have another institution do the job.

> How is it fundamentally dubious? It's fine to have a trusted organization to make decisions. It's not fine to place that organization above all criticism. I think their statistical methods are suspect and likely wrong. I don't think they should be censored and the act of censoring them is actively harmful if you don't want people taken in by misinformation, then we need to actively produce good information. There i…

having an independent organization does not imply being above criticism. even the government is not above criticism. what matters is how likely it is that the criticism will actually result in a change if there was a wrong decision made.

as it stands, google is already above all criticism because they are to big to be approached by any individual wronged by their decisions. an independent organization would be much more approachable, even if that approach ends up being a lawsuit.

Re: YouTube removed a viral video of two doctors calling for an end to quarantine

#330

Post by mrits »

0xff00ffee wrote: post #304

The number of people in this thread defending the right to spread billionaire-funded lies, propaganda, and misinformation under the guise of free-speech is drop-dead astonishing. Like, I can see why civilization could fail on a massive scale if a critical mass of the population starts to believe the opposite of the truth, and declares war on those trying to explain.

I find it amusing that I can't tell what side you are on.
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