Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

The San Francisco Bay Area shelter-in-place order is being extended through May

sfmayor.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

551–560 of 893 posts

Re: The San Francisco Bay Area shelter-in-place order is being extended through May

#551

Post by holler »

mlyle wrote: post #327
greendave wrote: post #144

The problem is that the shelter-in-place rule is already limited in effectiveness due to a very lengthy list of exceptions plus many people not observing the spirit of the rule. Compliance will only drop over time as people see that 1) Their actions are having no obvious impact and 2) There is no clear end in sight. If the primary goal of extending the order is to give local governments time to build out infrastructu…

The stated goal is to decay to 1 infection per million residents so that robust contact tracing works. Back of the envelope math puts that between 6 and 18 months of continued progress of the health order to get it to this level. (60 or so in Santa Clara County ICU == ~6000 infections. ICU occupancy decaying by 40% per month; 0.6^15 months * 6000 = ~3 )

so you think 6-18 months of SIP is going to work? I think that could lead us to a dire situation.

> robust contact tracing works

Doesn't that rely on the individual opting in/using it? I have a feeling most people don't want the government tracing their every move (even though it already is geographically).

Re: The San Francisco Bay Area shelter-in-place order is being extended through May

#552

Post by holler »

cs702 wrote: post #71

If many people get very sick simultaneously, they would not only overwhelm hospitals, they would also inflict a disorderly, involuntary shutdown of large swaths of the economy, driven by fear -- instead of the orderly, voluntary shutdown we have at present, driven by government mandate. We all want to avoid that .

It's only orderly so far because of a) food supply has not been affected yet*, and b) the gov issued unprecedented bailouts and put money in the hands of many people/businesses. However, we can't just keep printing money forever, if this goes on another 6 months it could be a whole different ball game.

Re: The San Francisco Bay Area shelter-in-place order is being extended through May

#553

Post by pembrook »

urban_strike wrote: post #514
jwlake wrote: post #482

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thing I'm confused by is why a costco is open that has like 1000 people per day and a flower shop that has 20 customers per day isn't open. Is the flower shop dangerous? Is it less essential on the yearly timeframe? This lockdown isn't measured in days right now, it's measured in months. What's "essential" in days is not what's "essential" in months.

Flowers aren't consumed for survival, i.e. "essential". I'm not sure how intervals of time has any effect on that.

Over half the items Costco sells aren't food or necessary household goods either.

Re: The San Francisco Bay Area shelter-in-place order is being extended through May

#554

Post by holler »

jwlake wrote: post #482
01100011 wrote: post #243

I'm surprised we're not seeing plans for some businesses to reopen with restrictions. I think it will be a while before we allow haircuts and manicures again, but I see no reason why we can't increase the types of businesses allowed open. Limiting occupancy, requiring PPE, and enforcing social distancing appear to be reasonable requirements. I hope the politicians and government workers are busy trying to find a midd…

The thing I'm confused by is why a costco is open that has like 1000 people per day and a flower shop that has 20 customers per day isn't open. Is the flower shop dangerous? Is it less essential on the yearly timeframe? This lockdown isn't measured in days right now, it's measured in months. What's "essential" in days is not what's "essential" in months.

Another thing that I find funny is how haphazardly the social distancing rules are enforced. At Costco when entering the store, they have you get into an external makeshift line and stand 6 feet away from the next person while waiting for your turn to enter the store. BUT, once you enter the store, there's literally not a single person enforcing anything, and so everyone is just mashed together walking around as if nothing changed...

Re: The San Francisco Bay Area shelter-in-place order is being extended through May

#555

Post by holler »

urban_strike wrote: post #514
jwlake wrote: post #482

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thing I'm confused by is why a costco is open that has like 1000 people per day and a flower shop that has 20 customers per day isn't open. Is the flower shop dangerous? Is it less essential on the yearly timeframe? This lockdown isn't measured in days right now, it's measured in months. What's "essential" in days is not what's "essential" in months.

Flowers aren't consumed for survival, i.e. "essential". I'm not sure how intervals of time has any effect on that.

If the flower shop goes out of business, 3-5 ppl lose their jobs. If Costco goes out of business, 250,000 people lose their jobs...

Re: The San Francisco Bay Area shelter-in-place order is being extended through May

#556

Post by paxys »

Snoozle wrote: post #410
ultrarunner wrote: post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I intentionally moved from reddit to HN after this same specific realization. After a few years it seemed like reddit would be a good place for hyper local info on covid, but I quickly saw the same effect— misanthropy in the face of so many people trying to do the best they could for others during hard times. It’s off topic here, but I seriously wonder what specifically caused reddit to adopt the largely toxic cultur…

A few things I try to remember about Reddit as someone who has used the site for 10+ years: 1. I keep getting older, and Reddit doesn't just stay the same, they get younger. There are a lot of kids on there from age 10-16, and these kids don't just stick to Teenagers and Memes; they will actively comment and discuss politics, capitalism, society, etc. 2. Upvotes mean agree, downvotes mean disagree. In this way, any o…

You're forgetting an important one – a significant percentage of votes come from bots or paid actors.

Re: The San Francisco Bay Area shelter-in-place order is being extended through May

#557

Post by 9nGQluzmnq3M »

lowpro wrote: post #330
hombre_fatal wrote: post #4

I'm lucky enough to have remote work. And I'm sure many HNers have a nice buffer of savings from their tech jobs to weather the storm or are getting paid time off. But can anyone share what it's like to not be in either of these situations? How are your rent lords handling things? I live abroad in a cheap country so I can handle zero income, but I wouldn't be able to last long if rent was $2000+/mo instead of the Yet…

My friend who works at the airport in the Galapagos (GPS) was telling me that no one has gotten paid since the tourism stopped. Luckily she can work on farm, but many can't. The local animal shelter there is now out of food, and the dogs will starve if they don't somehow raise money in the next 3 days or so (@patitasgalapaguenas on instagram, you can donate here [0]). The US is struggling in many ways, but I can't he…

Al Jazeera is always a good source for news ignored by the rest of the world. Here's social distancing in a prison in El Salvador -- not sure those masks will help much.

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020/04/el-salvador-inmates-c...

In India in particular, the lockdown has so far caused more misery than the virus itself:

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020/04/india-covid-19-lockdo...

...although it's an impossible equation, because letting it turn rampant would also cause death and destruction.

Re: The San Francisco Bay Area shelter-in-place order is being extended through May

#558

Post by anigbrowl »

adingus wrote: post #431
wpietri wrote: post #393

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or perhaps they know more about the topic than we random HN readers and have a plan that they're following.

If that is the case then they could communicate that plan a little better. At the end of the day it's their fault if people don't understand why they are taking the actions they are.

I take you're listening to the daily state briefings and similar county press conferences. I have not been having a problem understanding them.

Re: The San Francisco Bay Area shelter-in-place order is being extended through May

#559

Post by lazyasciiart »

thordenmark wrote: post #505
hombre_fatal wrote: post #4

I'm lucky enough to have remote work. And I'm sure many HNers have a nice buffer of savings from their tech jobs to weather the storm or are getting paid time off. But can anyone share what it's like to not be in either of these situations? How are your rent lords handling things? I live abroad in a cheap country so I can handle zero income, but I wouldn't be able to last long if rent was $2000+/mo instead of the Yet…

Thank you for putting into words precisely how I'm feeling about this situation. The goal was to flatten the curve, not protect every single person from getting exposed which is impossible and seems to be what those who are not suffering economic hardship from this (yet) are now asking for.

What gives you that impression? What do you think would be the result if we removed lockdowns on Friday?

Re: The San Francisco Bay Area shelter-in-place order is being extended through May

#560

Post by [deleted] »

thethethethe wrote: post #452
akira2501 wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What you think of as failure - hospitals currently low utilization - is in fact success. What bothers me is the contention that my rights are contingent upon reported capacity of already existing hospitals. If this is truly a concern, and our rights our primary, then we should be building more hospitals so that we no longer have to make this Faustian bargain. It seems impractical and short-sighted to continue these…

> What bothers me is the contention that my rights are contingent upon reported capacity of already existing hospitals This is pretty selfish. What about all of the old and immunocompromised people that could _die_? What about the families of those people? These people deserve rights too and I’d say their right to _stay alive_ trumps your “right” to get a hair cut or whatever

[deleted]
Post reply on HN