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The San Francisco Bay Area shelter-in-place order is being extended through May

sfmayor.org

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Re: The San Francisco Bay Area shelter-in-place order is being extended through May

#511

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The virus is tanking the economy, not the lockdown. Air travel is down 97% even though they are no laws against flying places. You can lift the lockdown if you want, but if people are too afraid to board planes and go to restaurants and bars, you are not going to magically bounce back to 4% unemployment and 2% GDP growth overnight. > If you want to take people’s livelihoods away from them, you have to justify the sei…

>> Air travel is down 97% even though they are no laws against flying places Sure there is. It's called mass unemployment and closure of non-essential businesses. Why would people fly to branch offices if they're closed? >> Conversely, you could argue that if you want to take actions that risk killing hundreds of thousands of people You don't know this to be true. There is plenty of evidence showing lockdowns have li…

> Sure there is. It's called mass unemployment and closure of non-essential businesses. Why would people fly to branch offices if they're closed?

Sweden didn't "lock down" (as people often point out), but travel is down 90% from normal [1]:

> "The biggest myth and misconception is that life goes on as normal in Sweden," she said. "It absolutely does not."

> "We have seen Easter travel decrease by 90 percent, we have businesses going bankrupt, a record number of temporary layoffs, and a lot of unemployed people."

I agree that lockdowns seem to have limited or no impact, but not for the reason you think. Where I am, restaurants and retail shops were already in dire straits before the lockdowns came into force. I think the lock downs have limited impact because they aren't very different from the way most people would be behaving anyways, given the information they have.

1. https://www.thelocal.se/20200424/interview-isabella-lovin-co...

Re: The San Francisco Bay Area shelter-in-place order is being extended through May

#512

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can speak to a few examples specifically. It's planting season now, and high business for nurseries. In Santa Clara County, they're closed by fiat. Lowe's, Home Depot, ACE hardware sell essential things (plumbing supplies, etc), so they get to remain open, in-store nurseries and all. So, if I want tomatoes, I have to brave the crowds at Lowe's instead of hopping out to my local nursery which is rarely densely popul…

Where I live (not the US) the same thing is happening, except that although the big stores are open they cannot sell nonessential items. They have those aisles roped off.

That's what's supposed to be happening in CA right now. The 2nd shelter-in-place order stated that, even if you are an essential business, you were not allowed to operate non-essential components of your business.

Re: The San Francisco Bay Area shelter-in-place order is being extended through May

#513
post #323

I'm lucky enough to have remote work. And I'm sure many HNers have a nice buffer of savings from their tech jobs to weather the storm or are getting paid time off. But can anyone share what it's like to not be in either of these situations? How are your rent lords handling things? I live abroad in a cheap country so I can handle zero income, but I wouldn't be able to last long if rent was $2000+/mo instead of the Yet…

Where on earth are you paying $200/mo for rent?

I know that for my oklahoma college friends they often had rent around 250/month for a room in the oklahoma city metro area (norman specifically). 200/month in some small oklahoma town is probably doable for a room.

Re: The San Francisco Bay Area shelter-in-place order is being extended through May

#514
post #482

I'm surprised we're not seeing plans for some businesses to reopen with restrictions. I think it will be a while before we allow haircuts and manicures again, but I see no reason why we can't increase the types of businesses allowed open. Limiting occupancy, requiring PPE, and enforcing social distancing appear to be reasonable requirements. I hope the politicians and government workers are busy trying to find a midd…

The thing I'm confused by is why a costco is open that has like 1000 people per day and a flower shop that has 20 customers per day isn't open. Is the flower shop dangerous? Is it less essential on the yearly timeframe? This lockdown isn't measured in days right now, it's measured in months. What's "essential" in days is not what's "essential" in months.

Flowers aren't consumed for survival, i.e. "essential". I'm not sure how intervals of time has any effect on that.

Re: The San Francisco Bay Area shelter-in-place order is being extended through May

#515

I'm surprised we're not seeing plans for some businesses to reopen with restrictions. I think it will be a while before we allow haircuts and manicures again, but I see no reason why we can't increase the types of businesses allowed open. Limiting occupancy, requiring PPE, and enforcing social distancing appear to be reasonable requirements. I hope the politicians and government workers are busy trying to find a midd…

We are seeing them, they're just in early phases; e.g. Italy has already announced its plans, and CA/OR/WA are talking about very specific goals before opening back up (https://abc7news.com/when-is-california-opening-up-reopening...)

Re: The San Francisco Bay Area shelter-in-place order is being extended through May

#516
post #273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some politicians have pointed out that some lower income people are getting paid more to _not_ work now, due to unemployment benefits and the CARES Act. I'm not saying that I agree with those politicians. It seems like the concern for lower income people runs the gamut from them not being able to make it to them living high on the benefits hog. Edit: It's not just politicians-- similar stories are on CNBC: https://ww…

Why would you not agree? It’s simple math. In most states, your weekly unemployment is half your salary, up to a cap. Under the CARES Act, you then add $600/week. So if that extra $600 is more than half your weekly paycheck, you earn more on unemployment. It works out to everyone earning less than about $62,000, which is more than half of people in most of the country. Pointing out that this creates a disincentive to…

That seems incorrect based on a couple of important points. A job is an ongoing relationship that can yield years of income and marketable experience. A fraction of a year of unemployment is not really comparable. Jobs and careers are anything but simple math. Furthermore the recent Pew study indicates that only 29% of unemployed in March collected benefits, largely because systems for distributing benefits are slow and typically service numbers several orders of magnitude smaller. Even in the best of times unemployment insurance has a failure rate of around 15% give or take depending on the state. If a system for distributing benefits is slow, significantly dysfunctional, and prone to cutting people off for a range of reasons then it is unlikely to compete with employment as a source of money, satisfaction, or resume enhancement.

Re: The San Francisco Bay Area shelter-in-place order is being extended through May

#517

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You could argue it the other way from the same data. Given that public health officials jumped on it early and got us such a low death rate, maybe we should keep trusting their judgment and let them decide when it's safe to reopen.

Deaths per month is not what matters. Its death per infection that matters. And theres no evidence that SF is doing any better in that regard.

So the only thing that matters in a city is something that is out of the city's control (i.e. mortality rate of a virus).

That's a bit silly. There's no sense in measuring against something that you can't meaningfully affect.

Your comment is also not entirely correct: SF's death rate is lower than places where hospitals are full or ventilator supplies are inadequate.

Re: The San Francisco Bay Area shelter-in-place order is being extended through May

#518

This is bizarre... There is a statewide stay-at-home order in effect until further notice. Any less-restrictive orders, such as San Francisco's, are null and void.

It does allow them to implement more specific restrictions. For example, with today's extension, SF is closing more street to cars inside Golden Gate Park to allow people to exercise outdoors while maintaining a safe distance.

Re: The San Francisco Bay Area shelter-in-place order is being extended through May

#519

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Pointing out that this creates a disincentive to return to work isn’t accusing anyone of “living high in the benefits hog.” Sure it is, plus it's a lie since unemployment requires active job search and taking offered employment, except for temporary layoff where you position is retained, where it still requires return to work when the employer ends the temporary layoff. You cannot choose to stay out of work and dra…

Is there a single state in the US that has not waived the “active job search” requirement for unemployment benefits at this point?

https://www.natlawreview.com/article/employers-and-workers-i... Says most states. Without much searching I found at least 3 (AK,WA and CA).

Re: The San Francisco Bay Area shelter-in-place order is being extended through May

#520

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I intentionally moved from reddit to HN after this same specific realization. After a few years it seemed like reddit would be a good place for hyper local info on covid, but I quickly saw the same effect— misanthropy in the face of so many people trying to do the best they could for others during hard times. It’s off topic here, but I seriously wonder what specifically caused reddit to adopt the largely toxic cultur…

My guess for the main reason Reddit feels so toxic would be younger demographic whose primary concern is demonstrating how much "smarter" they are than an average person. The commenting guidelines are also super lax, and the topics covered are very diverse. Which is mostly the opposite of HN, which skews older and actually more educated, comment guidelines are much stricter, and the topics covered are much more techn…

> My guess for the main reason Reddit feels so toxic would be younger demographic whose primary concern is demonstrating how much "smarter" they are than an average person.

> Which is mostly the opposite of HN

You must be new here. :)

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