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Supreme Court rules Georgia state law annotations not copyrightable [pdf]

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Re: Supreme Court rules Georgia state law annotations not copyrightable [pdf]

#51
post #10

Reading the opinions, it is a breath of fresh air to see one of the branches of government relying upon fact and logical argument when discussing the issues. This is how America is supposed to work.

Reading and listening to https://www.oyez.org/ - a fantastic resource for Supreme Court transcripts - it's clear that regardless of their backgrounds and circumstances of their appointment, each justice is incredibly intelligent and engaged.

The problem is that when it comes to the really sticky, complex issues that affect huge swaths of human rights, it's very possible for justices, in your words, to "rely upon fact and logical argument," but base their end goal/optimization function on either "what did the founders of the country factually and logically intend" or "what do the norms and ideals of modern society suggest would be factually and logically sustainable" without regard to the opposite viewpoint.

A real balance between these viewpoints keeps the pendulum from swinging out of control; it serves as a low-pass filter on the often-wild steering of policy, or the whims of a short-term-focused electorate. But it's equally important that the ultimate power reside long-term with the people. And one very possible outcome is that our justices succumb simultaneously to a pandemic, during an administration that, to be as charitable as possible, does not seem particularly concerned with nuance, system stability, or universal enfranchisement. And it's a lot to ask of a justice to hold both the meta-meta-viewpoint and legal precision in mind, especially as it seems likely that constitutional questions will be in play as November approaches. All we can do is hope they will rise to the occasion.

Re: Supreme Court rules Georgia state law annotations not copyrightable [pdf]

#52

This is a huge win for civil liberty.

I'm not sure that it is. While I agree with the final outcome (seriously, why would the states be able to copyright annotations?), it sounds like the court ignored precedent and effectively made up a new law out of whole cloth to reach this outcome. We may be okay with this particular outcome, but would we feel the same way if they did it for say Roe v. Wade (or some other more established opinion that you like, depe…

> it sounds like the court ignored precedent and effectively made up a new law out of whole cloth to reach this outcome.

> We may be okay with this particular outcome, but would we feel the same way if they did it for say Roe v. Wade

That's... pretty much exactly what they did for Roe v. Wade.

Re: Supreme Court rules Georgia state law annotations not copyrightable [pdf]

#53

Aside from the particulars of this case, I feel that the whole subject of copyright is generally anti-competitive and rent-seeking, as codified in the laws and time limits being inflated grossly to suit copyright holders in the current era. In my opinion, the argument that copyright extension incentivizes authors/creators doesn't hold much water. I generally observe that there are plenty of people willing to create a…

How is copyright anti-competitive? If you come up with an original work independently, why do competitor principles require ever letting someone else copy that work? We aren’t talking about limited resources here.

Re: Supreme Court rules Georgia state law annotations not copyrightable [pdf]

#54
post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I read a few case opinions per year. There are ones that are partisan but on the whole are incredibly well thought through, argued, and written. There are some disasters, but even then you get beautiful rebuttals (e.g. Kagan's dissent in Rucho v. Common Cause)

It's even more impressive when you realize that in many cases the opinions are largely researched and written by clerks.

I would say less impressive? Many great things can be produced by teams of what are essentially grad students.

A single person churning out brilliant opinions over decades would be more impressive to me.

Re: Supreme Court rules Georgia state law annotations not copyrightable [pdf]

#55
post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whether you agree with or disagree with the Citizens United outcome, describing the majority opinion as a straightforward "completely wrong" (when, for example, the ACLU supported the verdict) indicates that you have not, in fact, read any of the opinions or dissents, or done research about the specific case that was being litigated.

They overturned an at the time recent Supreme Court verdict, which is disruptive and counter to long standing precedent. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Austin_v._Michigan_Chamber_of_...

> precedent

and just because precedent is overturned doesn't mean it is wrong. I don't like Citizens United as much as the next person, but I think this requires a constitution change.

Re: Supreme Court rules Georgia state law annotations not copyrightable [pdf]

#56
post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whether you agree with or disagree with the Citizens United outcome, describing the majority opinion as a straightforward "completely wrong" (when, for example, the ACLU supported the verdict) indicates that you have not, in fact, read any of the opinions or dissents, or done research about the specific case that was being litigated.

They overturned an at the time recent Supreme Court verdict, which is disruptive and counter to long standing precedent. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Austin_v._Michigan_Chamber_of_...

That doesn’t make a decision “wrong.” Lots of Supreme Court opinions are wrong, and often obviously so. There is nothing wrong with overruling them.

Citizens United was an instance of the government sliding down a slippery slope of precedent, which forced that precedent to be re-evaluated. The facts (the government attempting to punish someone for distributing a political movie about a political candidate) were so stark, they revealed the defects in the precedent that may have been obscured previously. Moreover, the government made clear at oral argument that there was no limiting principle to its position—it acknowledged that, had the Court ruled the other way, nothing stopped the government from book banning and other core free speech violations.

Re: Supreme Court rules Georgia state law annotations not copyrightable [pdf]

#57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure that it is. While I agree with the final outcome (seriously, why would the states be able to copyright annotations?), it sounds like the court ignored precedent and effectively made up a new law out of whole cloth to reach this outcome. We may be okay with this particular outcome, but would we feel the same way if they did it for say Roe v. Wade (or some other more established opinion that you like, depe…

> it sounds like the court ignored precedent and effectively made up a new law out of whole cloth to reach this outcome. > We may be okay with this particular outcome, but would we feel the same way if they did it for say Roe v. Wade That's... pretty much exactly what they did for Roe v. Wade.

No, they didn't. In Roe v. Wade they made up a legal test which they can do, and they interpreted existing laws in terms of their constitutionality. However, as far as I can tell that's not what's happening here. They just took a law that applies to the judiciary and said "yah, that applies to the legislature too now". Again, not a lawyer, so the way in which they reached their outcome may not be as bad as it seems to me since I don't really have the knowledge to evaluate it properly. Just because the decision is good though doesn't mean it doesn't have other bad consequences.

Re: Supreme Court rules Georgia state law annotations not copyrightable [pdf]

#58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The partisan politics you see on TV is thankfully just the tip of the iceberg.

I suspect that idiom means just the opposite of what you think it means. By "thankfully" I infer that you are relieved that the vast majority of political activity, "below the surface" of what is seen on TV, is nowhere near as reprehensible. Whereas "tip of the iceberg" is generally used to imply that the visible problem is merely a fractional indication of the much greater and uglier problem that lies beneath, being…

Ah correct, I did misuse it. Thank you.

Re: Supreme Court rules Georgia state law annotations not copyrightable [pdf]

#59
post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The judicial branch is supposed to rely on facts and logical arguments. That is not how “America” writ large, however, is “supposed to work.” If that’s what the framers anticipated, they would have have had the other two branches likewise run by unelected subject matter experts with life tenure. But they didn’t. The fact is that the world is too complicated to figure out via facts and logical analysis, and that’s why…

> Meanwhile, German students went back to school a week ago. And in Sweden, lower schools were never even shut down in the first place. Logical analysis Where do you fit Italy, Spain, or even Portugal in your logica analysis? Because arguably the US is being hit harder than any of those countries and yet they are respecting their quarantine with notable results. Meanwhile, neither Germany nor Sweden has suffered as m…

The US has not been harder but than Italy or Spain, or even Sweden.

Sweden has had 2,300 COVID-19 deaths for 10 million people. The USA has 25 times as many deaths, but 32 times the population. Indeed, American cities with similar population and density to Stockholm have far fewer deaths. Washington DC is a little smaller and has similar density, but has had 165 deaths, versus over 1,100 in Stockholm. (Deaths are doubling in both countries every two weeks, so they seem to be at similar points in their overall trajectories.)

Similarly, the death rate in the US outside of NYC is comparable to that of Germany. (NYC has no counterpart in Germany; it’s almost three times as dense as Berlin, and more than twice as tense as Munich.)

But that’s a political decision the Swedes have made, and maybe it will prove to be the right one. It could be that, in the fall, the virus resurges in places where people have been sheltering and have not developed anti-bodies, while Swedes manage to avoid that resurgence because they never shut down. No expert can tell you which way it will be. They can tell you a discrete fact (sheltering in place will save more lives than otherwise), but are in no position to plug that fact into a value framework and reach a decision. But politicians must make a decision one way or the other.

Re: Supreme Court rules Georgia state law annotations not copyrightable [pdf]

#60

This is a huge win for civil liberty.

I'm not sure that it is. While I agree with the final outcome (seriously, why would the states be able to copyright annotations?), it sounds like the court ignored precedent and effectively made up a new law out of whole cloth to reach this outcome. We may be okay with this particular outcome, but would we feel the same way if they did it for say Roe v. Wade (or some other more established opinion that you like, depe…

I’m not so sure it ignores precedent, although it definitely extends it. I think Ginsberg in her dissent says it well that the issue follows from related precedent as such: “To explain why, I proceed from common ground. All agree that headnotes and syllabi for judicial opinions—both a kind of annotation—are copyrightable when created by a reporter of decisions, Callaghan v. Myers, 128 U. S. 617, 645–650 (1888), but are not copyrightable when created by judges.” She goes on to say “In contrast, the role of the legislature encompasses the process of ‘making laws’- not construing statutes after their enactment.” and that, “The OCGA annotations, in my appraisal, do not rank as part of the Georgia Legislature’s lawmaking process for three reasons.”

Those in the majority instead say “If judges, acting as judges, cannot be ’authors’ because of their authority to make and interpret the law, it follows that legislators, acting as legislators, cannot be either.” They say this extends to the annotations as “That of course includes final legislation, but it also includes explanatory and proce- dural materials legislators create in the discharge of their legislative duties.”

Whether the majority is correct in their decision or not, I think this is definitely a reasonable clarification of past precedent. I think Justice Thomas’s dissent is accurate when it says that this was not as clear cut a confirmation as the Majority opinion’s writing makes it out to be, but I think saying the decision is incongruous with previous precedent is also incorrect.

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