A PhD who doesn't know that "data" is plural?
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Are "teens" born or made? An interesting twist.
31–40 of 110 posts
Re: Are "teens" born or made? An interesting twist.
#32Earlier quoted context omitted.
"For all intents and purposes, people of age 16 are not much different from other adults except in that they don't have much experience in life." I totally disagree on this. There are remarkable physical differences between a 16 yo, and a 28yo. Your mental capabilities are different, your hormonal level is completely different etc. Yes, there are cultures or where teens are forced to act as adults to function in soci…
There are pretty remarkable physical differences between a 28yo and a 40yo, yet the legal and cultural differences between those ages are quite a bit less than between 16 and 28.
I would argue that the mental differences between a 28 and 40 year old are much less, however.
Re: Are "teens" born or made? An interesting twist.
#33Earlier quoted context omitted.
To me, it seems pretty obvious that all the adolescent tribulations are a cry for independence. The individual feels they're already at the point where they can take off on their own, but everything else around them beats them back down.
At the risk of being pretentious, I would say that what we all yearn for is (Heidegger's idea and vocabulary): "spatio-temporal ecstasis" -- the feeling that our self is expanding into the world, quickly and far. I get it when I learn more math -- I can feel my power or whatever it is expand into world. Teens in a good environment get it when they do their homework -- they know they are expanding and they feel it. Al…
Wow, (at the risk of breaking the anti-meta rule) this is the kind of comment I love and come to HN for.
This entire topic has been heavily on my mind for the last few months as I'm transitioning to legal adulthood and am in the college application process. Questions about who and what I am as a person and what I'll do for the rest of my life have been prime things in the back of my head throughout the day, and along with it, a lot of existentialist crisis.
I've spent the last 7 years at the same 2 public schools and community college, and before that 6 years at private/theme/charter schools that had unique teaching styles and freedoms that they gave their students. I felt like I matured better there than during my time at public high school and middle school. Yet during the last two years at community college (I was/am dual-enrolled) the new feeling of freedom from inane rules like asking for permission to do real silly and small things like going to the bathroom, getting up to sharpen my pencil or blow my nose, and daily attendance to classes I had limited choice over was exhilarating at first. Having all this freedom all at once after 11 years of harsh rules however proved to be too much of a rush and with little to no accountability to authority figures who were always checking on your work and setting soft/easy boundaries on assignments and guidelines to be strictly followed...I lapsed into a phase of constant gaming and wasting time on other non-productive things (like HN ;).
After my grades came back that first semester, along with it was a cold slap of reality and a realization that I had to take responsibility over my own education and learn and excel in everything I do for my own sake. This is when I began to learn Python seriously, treat school as a day-job that I did well on. In normal school, there is little to push the person to do more than what is required after a certain "honors" level (the kinds of classes I took during my first two years of high school before transitioning to dual-enrollment). I never really thought of learning pure math recreationally, or that was A Thing even.
I think Heidegger's idea you mention is a great way to describe the feeling of "becoming" into someone/something that I'm not sure of yet. This idea is explained in pretty-good manner here[1] by Mac thecaster, a really interesting guy who has been lifecasting his own development in life for quite a few years now since he was 15 and now is about 19/20.
Getting involved in real-world activities as a teen has also helped me develop better as an adult; I've worked jack-of-all-trades at an ethnic restaurant, and learned to haggle/negotiate while buying meats, sell products to potential customers, treat them well so they spend more and often, and how to clean many types of things. I've learned from criminals, former DJs and salesmen, and auto-mechanics while working side-by-side with them washing dishes, grilling large orders of steaks, and had many more experiences while being treated as an adult than before in my life.
This is partly why I believe most people who go on summer trips with programs like People to People[2], and EPGY[3], and other summer learning or traveling retreats are more wholesome and well-rounded people. Considering the formidable costs associated with these organized trips and learning retreats, the mostly affluent/well-off kids are able to actually go to them, or even be aware of their existence (from siblings or peer-networking amongst parents from the same socio-economic class). This can be correlated with the recent post about[4] how more confident and successful children born into prosperous families are and decides a lot of things for them in the long run.
[1]: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rRgxp71tDgk
Re: Are "teens" born or made? An interesting twist.
#34Earlier quoted context omitted.
There are pretty remarkable physical differences between a 28yo and a 40yo, yet the legal and cultural differences between those ages are quite a bit less than between 16 and 28.
I would argue that the mental differences between a 28 and 40 year old are much less, however.
I'd ask you to cite your reasoning. The average age of first child in western societies is almost hitting the 30 year old mark, so I'd argue that (in western societies at least) there is a dramatic mental difference between those in their mid 20's over those in their mid-thirties.
Re: Are "teens" born or made? An interesting twist.
#35It's my opinion that "adolescence" is a new social construct that is not universal and not innate. It's more likely to be a self-fulfilling prophecy more than anything else. In older times, teenagers (above say, 14) were considered men, or young adults. They would fight in armies, or even lead them. They were likely to be married and maybe even have children. For all intents and purposes, people of age 16 are not muc…
"For all intents and purposes, people of age 16 are not much different from other adults except in that they don't have much experience in life." I totally disagree on this. There are remarkable physical differences between a 16 yo, and a 28yo. Your mental capabilities are different, your hormonal level is completely different etc. Yes, there are cultures or where teens are forced to act as adults to function in soci…
> (BTW, I am 30, and when I was 16 I was basically acting as supervisor of a team of 12 workers when my family was building the house due to my father having heart problems. Yes, I was good with money, I could negotiate some, tell people what to do to a certain point, but I lacked emotional intelligence, tact, or general maturity to handle more finer problems).
So basically you're saying you was more adept at 16 with dealing with other people, responsibility and money than the vast majority of college grads are in their mid-late 20's. So I'm failing to see your point.
Because of an education you wouldn't have otherwise received you were capable of doing tasks considered vastly beyond your age's observed responsibility level, seemingly even by yourself.
Re: Are "teens" born or made? An interesting twist.
#36Earlier quoted context omitted.
To me, it seems pretty obvious that all the adolescent tribulations are a cry for independence. The individual feels they're already at the point where they can take off on their own, but everything else around them beats them back down.
At the risk of being pretentious, I would say that what we all yearn for is (Heidegger's idea and vocabulary): "spatio-temporal ecstasis" -- the feeling that our self is expanding into the world, quickly and far. I get it when I learn more math -- I can feel my power or whatever it is expand into world. Teens in a good environment get it when they do their homework -- they know they are expanding and they feel it. Al…
The classical notion of ecstasis is to be outside oneself, as in the phrase "beside oneself with joy". That's very different from inhabiting an expanded self. Are you saying that Heidegger revised the classical notion? If so, did he do this as part of an extended critique?
Nietzsche was a classicist and Heidegger's whole philosophy (if I remember grad school) was about taking off from classical roots, so it's unlikely they would have changed this concept without saying why. I'd like to know where they say it.
This isn't merely theoretical. My experience has been that Nietzschean self-assertion, at least in its more vulgar forms, leads to unhappiness in the long run - and that taking the focus off self, as suggested by the etymology of "ecstasy", is a more viable strategy. (Then again - not necessarily in adolescence, but later.)
Re: Are "teens" born or made? An interesting twist.
#37[deleted]
Re: Are "teens" born or made? An interesting twist.
#38One wonders about the wisdom of treating any interaction with an adult as being tantamount to asking for sexual exploitation while simultaneously dumping kids in a youth culture which says that sex is the best thing that everyone except them is having. I had a very fortunate upbringing in a lot of ways, but I think I talked to maybe three adults who were not parents, teachers, or family in an eight year period. That…
I think I talked to maybe three adults who were not parents, teachers, or family in an eight year period.
Don't mean to pry, so feel free to ignore this, but how do you reckon not talking to more than 3 adults over a 8 year period is fortunate? I am genuinely interested, not being facetious.
Re: Are "teens" born or made? An interesting twist.
#39It's my opinion that "adolescence" is a new social construct that is not universal and not innate. It's more likely to be a self-fulfilling prophecy more than anything else. In older times, teenagers (above say, 14) were considered men, or young adults. They would fight in armies, or even lead them. They were likely to be married and maybe even have children. For all intents and purposes, people of age 16 are not muc…
"For all intents and purposes, people of age 16 are not much different from other adults except in that they don't have much experience in life." I totally disagree on this. There are remarkable physical differences between a 16 yo, and a 28yo. Your mental capabilities are different, your hormonal level is completely different etc. Yes, there are cultures or where teens are forced to act as adults to function in soci…
> Yes, there are cultures or where teens are forced to act as adults to function in society, but that doesn't make them they have the same capabilities as of an adult
"Forced"? This is circular logic.
What makes you think they are forced? It seems every one here agrees that teenager want to be treated like adults.
The only reason to think they were forced is if you think they are still children at age 16. You provided yourself as your own counter example, so clearly at 16 you weren't a child.
> but I lacked emotional intelligence, tact, or general maturity to handle more finer problems
This is exactly what I mean by experience. Emotional intelligence and tact (as you put it) doesn't come suddenly when you're 22; it comes with experience. You could very easily be 30 and still lack these things. I would go further and say you are more likely to lack them if your parents keep treating you like a child and prevent you from doing adult stuff and experiencing the world outside of their "protection".
Re: Are "teens" born or made? An interesting twist.
#40Earlier quoted context omitted.
There are pretty remarkable physical differences between a 28yo and a 40yo, yet the legal and cultural differences between those ages are quite a bit less than between 16 and 28.
I would argue that the mental differences between a 28 and 40 year old are much less, however.
I think most cultures consider their elders to have much much more wisdom than regular men.