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Dissection of COVIDSafe (Android): Australian government's contact tracing app

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Re: Dissection of COVIDSafe (Android): Australian government's contact tracing app

#171

Post by barbs »

pmontra wrote: post #23
maxden wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, I thought they said a few days ago that the source code will be made available for scrutiny but this now how its being reported: "Some, if not all, of the app’s source code will be made public."

Will Australians be able to build from source, install and connect to the central server (if any)? Or at least build and verify that what comes from the stores is what they built? If not, having the source code doesn't really matter much.

I think it would go a long way in establishing trust if they release the source code, even if you can't perfectly prove that the binaries are built from it. They would have to be outright lying if that wasn't the case.

Re: Dissection of COVIDSafe (Android): Australian government's contact tracing app

#172

Post by hilbert42 »

godelski wrote: post #99
mcannon wrote: post #35

I believe the government, PM and various ministers have said the code will be released. My sources also say exactly the same. They’re obviously operating with extreme urgency to get the app out. For you. Give them a few weeks to clean up code and release it (which is very normal) - but in the meantime, here are some tips: - Turn the HN angry mob mode off - it’s not helpful. We’re all in this together. - Commend the g…

> - Turn the HN angry mob mode off - it’s not helpful. We’re all in this together. I actually believe this is helpful. Just in any democratic setting you want different types of players. You want the "burn the system down" people, because they provide harsh critiques and don't hold back. You want the "okay, but I have reservations" people, because they will push forward but also consider what they are doing (and will…

"Being critical of those in power is a keystone to democracy."

That may be so for an ideal democracy but with our far-from-perfect ones where the power imbalance inevitably favors the incumbents, precious little ever changes.

Re: Dissection of COVIDSafe (Android): Australian government's contact tracing app

#173

Post by Retric »

davros wrote: post #151
godelski wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> - Turn the HN angry mob mode off - it’s not helpful. We’re all in this together. I actually believe this is helpful. Just in any democratic setting you want different types of players. You want the "burn the system down" people, because they provide harsh critiques and don't hold back. You want the "okay, but I have reservations" people, because they will push forward but also consider what they are doing (and will…

The Australian governments track record is bad and we should be critical of that. But I have yet to see important problems with this particular app identified. Lets stick with the facts here rather than 'it must be bad'. People have decompiled the kotlin code and so far I haven't seen anyone report anything bad. Am I missing something?

If we have zero other information about the app other than the creator, that’s the only reasonable thing to base our options on. Aka, if all you know is the software is written by a malware company, would you run it?

I am perfectly willing to change my opinion if given more information, but until then...

Re: Dissection of COVIDSafe (Android): Australian government's contact tracing app

#174

Post by jeromegv »

dTal wrote: post #120
jeromegv wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's why an OS solution is the only viable solution. Asking for the app to be open is the most ridiculous thing ever.

That doesn't follow at all. Open or not has nothing to do with it. It simply means the app is badly designed.

No, you can't keep an app permanently running in the background on iOS. The operating system does not allow it.

Re: Dissection of COVIDSafe (Android): Australian government's contact tracing app

#175

Post by Sophistifunk »

The Australian government is not to be trusted, they (both parties) have been trying to take control of the internet for decades now, and even when they're not trying to do something nefarious, government IT projects have a long history of incompetence. Even recently (but before CV19) they've been drastically increasing the reach of the state to spy on people and force backdoors into software.

Re: Dissection of COVIDSafe (Android): Australian government's contact tracing app

#176

Post by Sophistifunk »

Daishiman wrote: post #100
discordance wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would love to trust them more, but the Australian government does not have a good track record with regards to privacy. Two such recent examples: - Australian's browser history is being provided to law enforcement even though that practice was excluded from the original intent and law [0] - Australia passed laws in 2018 which enable law enforcement to compel tech companies into inserting backdoors into their softwa…

The Australian government is not a single monolothic institution. It's a set of hundreds of thousands of people with different agendas and intentions. You cannot assign singular agency to the entire government; rather we have to go case-by-case to understand the implications of programs like these.

Bollocks. We can attribute to them the desire to gobble up power to control what we can and can't do on the internet and surveil us, because that's the way they all behave.

Re: Dissection of COVIDSafe (Android): Australian government's contact tracing app

#177

Post by Marsymars »

doctor_eval wrote: post #136
godelski wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You can choose to get the virus - but that’s a pretty silly choice IMHO. And if you do, please stay home and don’t give it to anyone else. I don't think this is unreasonable. Most people on HN are under 65 and thus will only get mild symptoms and likely just be out for a few days. Considering we're all probably working remotely, it is also easy to not infect others. Alternatively, a government overreach can last de…

This is nuts. A 30yo gets sick, infects a 60yo who goes to hospital and lands in ICU. 30yo then gets unrelated disease (chain saw accident. Burst appendix. Slipped in the shower.) Goes to hospital. Repeat this often enough and suddenly you have a crisis in which there are not enough health care workers and beds, and now all ages are dying equally. The idea that young people are not affected by this is just braindead…

This was in the context of people choosing to get the virus, where the risk of infecting a 60yo is essentially nil.

At this point, I'd volunteer for infection where I'm locked in a prison cell with a box of Clif bars and some books and am not permitted any human contact until I'm no longer infectious. Am also willing to sign up for periodic re-infection to ensure that I do actually have immunity.

Re: Dissection of COVIDSafe (Android): Australian government's contact tracing app

#178

Post by chillfox »

davros wrote: post #151
godelski wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> - Turn the HN angry mob mode off - it’s not helpful. We’re all in this together. I actually believe this is helpful. Just in any democratic setting you want different types of players. You want the "burn the system down" people, because they provide harsh critiques and don't hold back. You want the "okay, but I have reservations" people, because they will push forward but also consider what they are doing (and will…

The Australian governments track record is bad and we should be critical of that. But I have yet to see important problems with this particular app identified. Lets stick with the facts here rather than 'it must be bad'. People have decompiled the kotlin code and so far I haven't seen anyone report anything bad. Am I missing something?

That’s a massive understatement. More accurate words describing the government’s track record would be “screwup, coverup, deceit, malicious”.

At every single point in the past where they have had the chance to deal with technology they have done one or more of the following: 1. Screwed up, and then tried to cover it up. 2. Outright lied. 3. Created malicious laws that mandate violating privacy and makes it illegal to tell the truth about it.

Basically they have proven numerous times that they can’t be trusted with technology or privacy.

Re: Dissection of COVIDSafe (Android): Australian government's contact tracing app

#179

Post by hilbert42 »

discordance wrote: post #45
mcannon wrote: post #35

I believe the government, PM and various ministers have said the code will be released. My sources also say exactly the same. They’re obviously operating with extreme urgency to get the app out. For you. Give them a few weeks to clean up code and release it (which is very normal) - but in the meantime, here are some tips: - Turn the HN angry mob mode off - it’s not helpful. We’re all in this together. - Commend the g…

I would love to trust them more, but the Australian government does not have a good track record with regards to privacy. Two such recent examples: - Australian's browser history is being provided to law enforcement even though that practice was excluded from the original intent and law [0] - Australia passed laws in 2018 which enable law enforcement to compel tech companies into inserting backdoors into their softwa…

Have you ever thought why the Australian Government is so far ahead in such matters?

Perhaps it has something to do with the bloody-mined, overly-timid sheep that continually vote these bastards into government year after year—despite the current surfeit of draconian law.

Don't forget there's been no stomach to rock the boat in this country for decades and also we haven't had an effective Opposition for many years.

Re: Dissection of COVIDSafe (Android): Australian government's contact tracing app

#180

Post by justatdotin »

mcannon wrote: post #35

I believe the government, PM and various ministers have said the code will be released. My sources also say exactly the same. They’re obviously operating with extreme urgency to get the app out. For you. Give them a few weeks to clean up code and release it (which is very normal) - but in the meantime, here are some tips: - Turn the HN angry mob mode off - it’s not helpful. We’re all in this together. - Commend the g…

reap: ass access bill

sow: scepticism

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