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Dissection of COVIDSafe (Android): Australian government's contact tracing app

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Re: Dissection of COVIDSafe (Android): Australian government's contact tracing app

#111

Post by def_true_false »

temac wrote: post #91
tastroder wrote: post #2

It's interesting to see these tracing app discussions crop up all over the world at the moment. In Germany it quite literally took dozens of public interest groups, two weeks of media attention, EU guidance and an open letter by hundreds of scientists to make the government switch from central data collection to an acceptable decentralised approach. The amount of misinformation put out by lobby groups in the process…

> In Germany it quite literally took dozens of public interest groups, two weeks of media attention, EU guidance and an open letter by hundreds of scientists to make the government switch from central data collection to an acceptable decentralised approach. Interesting. Do you have any pointer on the current German approach? I've been looking at the Robert protocol from Inria+Fraunhofer, and I'm not sure I like the c…

I guess they meant the DP-3T. See https://github.com/DP-3T/documents

Re: Dissection of COVIDSafe (Android): Australian government's contact tracing app

#112

Post by jessriedel »

jay_kyburz wrote: post #106

Here is how I think the app should have worked. Instead of requesting codes from a central government server to be distributed to people you come into contact with, your phone could have generated its own codes for distribution. Then when a COVID infection is found, the gov could simply publish a list of all codes collected by the infected person. Your phone could request this public list daily and you could choose t…

If I understand you correctly, this is exactly the procedure that Stanford's CovidWatch is implementing.

https://www.covid-watch.org/article#contactTracing

They are pushing for a standard protocol that incorporates this mechanism. It may or may not be compatible with the joint effort of Google and Apple, and with Singapore's under-development BlueTrace standard.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/BlueTrace

Re: Dissection of COVIDSafe (Android): Australian government's contact tracing app

#113

Post by petre »

mcannon wrote: post #35

I believe the government, PM and various ministers have said the code will be released. My sources also say exactly the same. They’re obviously operating with extreme urgency to get the app out. For you. Give them a few weeks to clean up code and release it (which is very normal) - but in the meantime, here are some tips: - Turn the HN angry mob mode off - it’s not helpful. We’re all in this together. - Commend the g…

This isn't the government brought to you by the same people who claimed the laws of maths didn't apply down under, is it? They call themselves liberals.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/news/malc...

Re: Dissection of COVIDSafe (Android): Australian government's contact tracing app

#114

Post by cmroanirgo »

Daishiman wrote: post #100
discordance wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would love to trust them more, but the Australian government does not have a good track record with regards to privacy. Two such recent examples: - Australian's browser history is being provided to law enforcement even though that practice was excluded from the original intent and law [0] - Australia passed laws in 2018 which enable law enforcement to compel tech companies into inserting backdoors into their softwa…

The Australian government is not a single monolothic institution. It's a set of hundreds of thousands of people with different agendas and intentions. You cannot assign singular agency to the entire government; rather we have to go case-by-case to understand the implications of programs like these.

Yes. But it is the government that creates the law.

Parent also forgot to mention mandatory data retention laws. All isps must retain history of internet traffic for ¿2 years.

That telephone numbers are used in this app should also be regarded as a breach of the referendum we had about the Australia Card back in the 80's. (It is illegal to tie citizens to a number for the sake of tracking, which is exactly what this does...). Which is why scomo (Scott Morrison, the PM) is asking for this app to be voluntary.

Re: Dissection of COVIDSafe (Android): Australian government's contact tracing app

#115

Post by contingencies »

Almost makes you want to write a dystopian travel advisory.

Sydney, 2020. Foreign business people are advised to avoid all non-essential travel to Australia. Local authorities are known to seize devices, force self-isolation, force the installation of applications on mobile devices, inspect luggage and monitor the private telecommunications of travelers. Best practice is not to bring critical information to Australia and to use temporary or 'burner' devices where possible. Recent incidents[0][1][2] show a rise in anti-foreign sentiment, particularly for visitors of Asian appearance.

[0] https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/feb/04/australian-doc... [1] https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-04-03/racism-covid-19-coron... [2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P0cYJkGk7gI

Re: Dissection of COVIDSafe (Android): Australian government's contact tracing app

#116

Post by lern_too_spel »

m4rtink wrote: post #74
metta2uall wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IMHO, the fact that they app is unobfuscated and can thus be easily decompiled is even better than released source code since one can't be sure that the released source code truly matches the actual build in the app store (unless they also go to the effort of having 'reproducible builds' - which would be quite impressive). Also it's good to keep in perspective that the 'government' can already track people to a great…

IIRC, Fdroid rebuilds all the Android apps they host from source so they can be sure their source really matches the app. Actually, this is also what all good Linux distros do with all their software.

I'm not aware of any Linux distros with 100% reproducible builds, though Debian is actively working on it and getting closer.

Re: Dissection of COVIDSafe (Android): Australian government's contact tracing app

#117

Post by healsjnr1 »

jfoster wrote: post #98
discordance wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would love to trust them more, but the Australian government does not have a good track record with regards to privacy. Two such recent examples: - Australian's browser history is being provided to law enforcement even though that practice was excluded from the original intent and law [0] - Australia passed laws in 2018 which enable law enforcement to compel tech companies into inserting backdoors into their softwa…

Do you honestly believe that they are trying to do something other than stem the harm from this pandemic, or are you just protesting about something they did in the past that you're not happy about? If it is the latter, have you considered the harm that your protest may be doing?

It is a combination of their previous behavior plus the behavior of the various agencies.

For example: https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2020/apr/23/gover...

The fact that law enforcement even asked for this would be to many people completely unacceptable.

It's why, despite their efforts to assuage people, so many people will not trust this government.

The backdoor legislation means that at a later date, after the code is released, they could request a backdoor to the app and _no one_ could talk about it. All the legal provisions are there.

Re: Dissection of COVIDSafe (Android): Australian government's contact tracing app

#118

Post by vorpalhex »

jfoster wrote: post #104
vorpalhex wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My recommendation is that when a non-technical person asks you a question, especially if that person is a friend, is to not lie. To tell them the app preserves their privacy without seeing the source is a lie. The truth is "I don't know". It is not normal to clean code before releasing it. That would suggest the code either has technical flaws or other deeply rooted problems that you are not comfortable releasing. Th…

Wouldn't you then be telling them the same thing for every app? How many apps & platforms have you reviewed the code for prior to providing your assessment of the risks involved?

That's why I don't typically give recommendations. Even with apps like Signal, we should communicate what we can verify and can't.

We owe it to other people to communicate honestly.

Re: Dissection of COVIDSafe (Android): Australian government's contact tracing app

#119

Post by ta1771 »

discordance wrote: post #45
mcannon wrote: post #35

I believe the government, PM and various ministers have said the code will be released. My sources also say exactly the same. They’re obviously operating with extreme urgency to get the app out. For you. Give them a few weeks to clean up code and release it (which is very normal) - but in the meantime, here are some tips: - Turn the HN angry mob mode off - it’s not helpful. We’re all in this together. - Commend the g…

I would love to trust them more, but the Australian government does not have a good track record with regards to privacy. Two such recent examples: - Australian's browser history is being provided to law enforcement even though that practice was excluded from the original intent and law [0] - Australia passed laws in 2018 which enable law enforcement to compel tech companies into inserting backdoors into their softwa…

Also, gun laws.

Re: Dissection of COVIDSafe (Android): Australian government's contact tracing app

#120

Post by dTal »

jeromegv wrote: post #83
dragonsky wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is my problem with the app. The only reason I'm going to be in public for a 15 minute period at the moment is either being on or waiting for public transport or eating in a food court. In those cases I'm going to be using my phone to browse the net or watch a video meaning that this app won't be functional. At least on iOS, so what is the point?

That's why an OS solution is the only viable solution. Asking for the app to be open is the most ridiculous thing ever.

That doesn't follow at all. Open or not has nothing to do with it. It simply means the app is badly designed.
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