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Europe’s cities are making less room for cars after coronavirus

citylab.com

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Re: Europe’s cities are making less room for cars after coronavirus

#201

Post by lbeltrame »

Broken_Hippo wrote: post #178
lbeltrame wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some back of envelope estimates: 75 minutes of walking to get to the workplace. Approximately 50 minutes if I go via bicycle (directions are not straightforward for many reasons). This is regardless of weather and/or traffic if on the road. 30-40 minutes if I go via metro + train (the actual trips take 10ish minutes each). Unless forced to do differently, the most efficient choice is evident. I'm also lucky enough to…

Sure, that's out of reasonable walking distance: Depending on your day, the occasional bicycle isn't out of question. Even in rain. (To be fair, I'll walk daily anywhere that is 30-45minutes most days). But honestly, the bicycle is cultural as it would be better to prioritize bikes so it is faster. Same for public transportation. Car-first infrastructure and lack of pedestrian/bicycle/mass transit are political decis…

In fact, people are actually using bike sharing a lot already here since they were first put into practice several years ago (there are stations where you can hop on close to many spots with high traffic).

Re: Europe’s cities are making less room for cars after coronavirus

#202

Post by Fnoord »

renewiltord wrote: post #46
jasonv wrote: post #11

I'm perplexed by the comments here. Some cities have seen greater business increases on pedestrian and bike converted through-ways because people in cars weren't just passing by. Bikers and pedestrians stopped and shopped in the areas they were traveling through. I, for one, look forward to making a choice to move to a place where I can live car-free and hope more cities accelerate plans like this.

American cities are not capable of running good public transit because they mostly use it as a combination of a jobs program and a poor-people access program. I was car-free for seven years in San Francisco (supposedly one of the relatively high performers) but my standard of living jumped significantly after I bought my car. Overall, I think I might even come out ahead. I don't think I'm going to take public transit…

In Amsterdam, before the corona crisis, the metros went every six minutes. If one gets delayed or you miss one, you just grab the next. Waiting 5 minutes can be awfully long if you're used to grabbing it though, and if it makes you miss your connection that sucks (train mostly, other metro is no problem). Also, parking in Amsterdam (center) is very expensive, AFAIK something like 7 EUR an hour last time I checked. I got family living there; you don't want to go to a birthday and spend 20 EUR on parking. Public transport is cheaper then. Do remember that removing cars still means trams, and pedestrians and cyclists need to be aware of these!

Re: Europe’s cities are making less room for cars after coronavirus

#203

Post by choeger »

thesz wrote: post #182
choeger wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't want to trash your hopes, but the particles are pretty much independent from traffic nowadays (see how Stuttgart is doing these days). The drought around Berlin will probably kick way more fine particles into the city than all Diesel cars together. The only thing that could help would be more trees and less dense cities.

More trees [1], less particle pollution, you say? [1] https://www.businessinsider.co.za/georgia-helicopter-causes-...

Well, conifers, obviously ;)

Re: Europe’s cities are making less room for cars after coronavirus

#204

Post by ghaff »

ProZsolt wrote: post #196
ghaff wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have zero trouble understanding that owning a personal car may not make economic sense in many cities. I have more trouble really grokking the no driver license. So many trips associated with both work and vacation experiences--or even weekend activities outside of a city--require renting a car. I guess you can consciously avoid those situations but it seems very limiting. (Certainly I couldn't really have done job…

I don't know where the OP lives, but in Europe it is pretty durable. I have a driving license, but I never owned or rented a car while living in the EU. I mostly cycled while living in Budapest and London. You can use the train or fly if you want to go everywhere else. Everything is cheap (compare to owning a car) and reasonably fast. When I moved to New Zealand after ~2 weeks I bought a car because it wasn't feasibl…

It's definitely more feasible in much of Europe than in most of the US. You're still somewhat constrained to where there's decent rail or bus service--or where you can go with friends/partner; you're probably not going to travel around the Scottish highlands without a car.

But, if you live and work in a relatively major city and are fine with mostly traveling to and from where there's good public transit you can make it work.

It's much harder in the US if only because, outside of New York City, there's sort of an expectation you have a car and things tend to be organized with that expectation in mind. People can and do get help from friends with cars but this becomes harder as you get further out of school.

Re: Europe’s cities are making less room for cars after coronavirus

#205

Post by ProZsolt »

stunt wrote: post #193

"Cities are making less room for cars" Is this really corona related? I'm hearing this for many years now.

Cycling skyrocketed after social distancing started. People realized cycling is not that bad if you don't have to be afraid to be hit by a car. Currently, there is less car on the roads because people working from home.

Re: Europe’s cities are making less room for cars after coronavirus

#206

Post by Broken_Hippo »

lbeltrame wrote: post #201
Broken_Hippo wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, that's out of reasonable walking distance: Depending on your day, the occasional bicycle isn't out of question. Even in rain. (To be fair, I'll walk daily anywhere that is 30-45minutes most days). But honestly, the bicycle is cultural as it would be better to prioritize bikes so it is faster. Same for public transportation. Car-first infrastructure and lack of pedestrian/bicycle/mass transit are political decis…

In fact, people are actually using bike sharing a lot already here since they were first put into practice several years ago (there are stations where you can hop on close to many spots with high traffic).

They've been expanding the bike share things here. I nearly used them last year, but they are even more so now. I suspect I'll bike this summer.

They've had some for years, mind you - but they were really more in the tourist spots. Now they are putting them in next to a fair amount of regular bus stops.

Re: Europe’s cities are making less room for cars after coronavirus

#207

Post by ghaff »

mjmahone17 wrote: post #73
ghaff wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I lived in Boston--as opposed to a fairly far out exurb--I could imagine not owning a car given that I mostly work remotely. Though I probably still would so I could get out to mountains, etc. for the weekend. In any case, I would certainly want to be able to drive so I could do various vacations and sometimes necessary work driving. Some of this is less common in Uber days but certainly not non-existent. My point…

When do you need to? If your family never drives, you wouldn’t see a need to. It’s almost like asking “well wouldn’t you want to be able to go camping?” Sure, if you grew up camping you might know you want that. But if you didn’t, why would you even think about going camping? Similarly, if you’ve only lived in a city where you can hire a driver (cabs, moving vans, etc) as needed, why would you ever think you need to…

Leaving aside that one office I do go into sometimes is in a suburban office park (but I suppose I can take commuter rail/Uber when I needed to go in). I have lots of friends scattered around the area. Most do not live in the city. It's very usual for me on weekends to go to the mountains/shore/skiing/etc. all of which need cars. (And the handful of people I know who live in e.g. SF without cars use Zipcar and rentals a lot to pickup things, etc.)

When I travel in the US, I go places like national parks which all need cars to get to.

I would absolutely not be fine with living in a city with no real way to get out of it.

Re: Europe’s cities are making less room for cars after coronavirus

#208

Post by bad_news_bears »

eloisius wrote: post #42
daenz wrote: post #23

Anecdotally, where I live in Seattle, the people who are still driving are driving like maniacs...speeding, ignoring stop signs, lights, etc. There may be more room for cyclists, but it doesn't really feel safer.

I'm in Atlanta and noticed the exact same thing today. Biking here is usually hairy, but I was almost hit twice by people making a rushed left turn in the course of a 20 mile ride. I wonder if it's because people are driving less, and their skills have fallen off, or if people are living some kind of zombie apocalypse fantasy.

I drive about once a week now, as opposed to my previous daily routine, and noticed yesterday it was difficult for me to remain focused on the road, to your point about skills having fallen off.

Re: Europe’s cities are making less room for cars after coronavirus

#209

Post by lnsru »

hnarn wrote: post #149
lnsru wrote: post #146

It’s completely wrong discussion. Remote work should be prioritized, so the people don’t need to move to overcrowded cities. Less people in the cities, less problems with their cars and crappy public transport.

Urbanization has been going strong as a trend for more than 100 years and I think it's reasonable to assume it won't stop anytime soon. If that's correct, density in cities will only increase, and most remote workers will not be outside of the city anyway. People enjoy having an entertainment-dense area to be in during the weekends and evenings, and they enjoy being able to go there without taking their car for an ho…

I wish, there would be a way to make this urbanization less extreme. For example, real estate prices in Munich are absolutely insane. Kindergarten and other state owned employers can’t find personell. People just can’t afford living in the city.

Re: Europe’s cities are making less room for cars after coronavirus

#210

Post by frostburg »

barry-cotter wrote: post #94
ekianjo wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> where I can live car-free and hope more cities accelerate plans like this. You seriously want to live in a car-free society after COVID19? The subway in NY was a major source of infection in the city.

> Conversely, as I will show, data show that local infections were negatively correlated with subway use, even when controlling for demographic data. Although this correlation study does not establish causation, it more reliably characterizes the spread of the virus than the intuitions and visual inspections that Harris relies on. https://marketurbanism.com/2020/04/19/automobiles-seeded-the... > New York and other su…

You have to push the turnstiles in Milan, too; they're not a great design either, I hope that they get phased out quickly.
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