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Europe’s cities are making less room for cars after coronavirus

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Re: Europe’s cities are making less room for cars after coronavirus

#91
post #11

I'm perplexed by the comments here. Some cities have seen greater business increases on pedestrian and bike converted through-ways because people in cars weren't just passing by. Bikers and pedestrians stopped and shopped in the areas they were traveling through. I, for one, look forward to making a choice to move to a place where I can live car-free and hope more cities accelerate plans like this.

> where I can live car-free and hope more cities accelerate plans like this.

You seriously want to live in a car-free society after COVID19? The subway in NY was a major source of infection in the city.

Re: Europe’s cities are making less room for cars after coronavirus

#92
post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

London’s Embankment from Westminster to Blackfriars (and the rest of CS3 on other roads) added a bike lane by removing car capacity despite it being full every rush hour. The road as a whole has higher throughput now. https://www.alamy.com/stock-photo-cycle-lane-superhighway-em...

A safe bike route from SW to NE, e.g. Fulham to Shoreditch, would be lovely.

Kensington and Chelsea don't like segregated bike lanes. One upcoming bike lane of CS3 quality is from the borough border (Olympia) towards Heathrow.

Re: Europe’s cities are making less room for cars after coronavirus

#93
post #15
post #11

I'm perplexed by the comments here. Some cities have seen greater business increases on pedestrian and bike converted through-ways because people in cars weren't just passing by. Bikers and pedestrians stopped and shopped in the areas they were traveling through. I, for one, look forward to making a choice to move to a place where I can live car-free and hope more cities accelerate plans like this.

I live in Tokyo and I can assure you that living car-free is lovely. I used to love driving, then moved here and stopped caring altogether when I realized that public transport here is significantly faster (and cheaper) than using your car to go from point A to point B.

> I live in Tokyo and I can assure you that living car-free is lovely

So you really enjoy packed subways that make you feel like cattle pretty much every time of the day? Sorry but Tokyo is the best example of "best in class public transport" being completely over capacity for the amount of people they have to transport every day.

Re: Europe’s cities are making less room for cars after coronavirus

#94
post #91
post #11

I'm perplexed by the comments here. Some cities have seen greater business increases on pedestrian and bike converted through-ways because people in cars weren't just passing by. Bikers and pedestrians stopped and shopped in the areas they were traveling through. I, for one, look forward to making a choice to move to a place where I can live car-free and hope more cities accelerate plans like this.

> where I can live car-free and hope more cities accelerate plans like this. You seriously want to live in a car-free society after COVID19? The subway in NY was a major source of infection in the city.

> Conversely, as I will show, data show that local infections were negatively correlated with subway use, even when controlling for demographic data. Although this correlation study does not establish causation, it more reliably characterizes the spread of the virus than the intuitions and visual inspections that Harris relies on.

https://marketurbanism.com/2020/04/19/automobiles-seeded-the...

> New York and other subways

> In multiple other countries, one cannot see the transit cities in the virus infection rates. In Germany the rates in the largest cities are collectively the same as in the rest of the country. In South Korea, the infection is centered on Daegu; Seoul’s density and high transit usage are compatible with an infection rate of about 700 in a city of 9.5 million, about 1.5 orders of magnitude less per capita than in most Western countries and 2.5 orders of magnitude less than in New York. In Taipei, the MRT remains crowded, with weekday ridership in February and March down by 15-16%. In Italy, car usage is high outside a handful of very large cities like Milan, and Milan’s infection rate isn’t high by the standards of the rest of Lombardy.

> However, rest-of-world evidence does not mean that the New York City Subway is safe. The Taipei MRT has mandatory mask usage and very frequent cleaning. German U- and S-Bahn networks are a lot dirtier than anything I’ve seen in Asia, but much cleaner than anything I’ve seen in New York, and also have much less peak crowding than New York. New York uniquely has turnstiles requiring pushing with one’s hands or bodies, and the only other city I know of with such fare barriers is Paris, whose infection rates are far below New York’s but still high by French standards.

> So the question is not whether rapid transit systems are inherently unsafe for riders, which they are not. It’s whether New York, with all of its repeated failings killing tens of workers from exposure to the virus, has an unsafe rapid transit system. Nonetheless, the answer appears to be negative: no evidence exists that the subway is leading to higher infection rates, and the paper does not introduce any.

https://pedestrianobservations.com/2020/04/15/the-subway-is-...

Re: Europe’s cities are making less room for cars after coronavirus

#95
post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reminds me of bars in NYC back when smoking bans were implemented. They all thought they would lose business. They gained it instead as new customers who had been avoiding bars because of the smell of smoke flocked there instead.

The opposite happened in my locale. I'm a musician, so I welcomed not having to come home from a performance covered in smoke. The bottom dropped out of the bar business. Now this might be the difference -- my town is mid sized and a lot more sprawly. My hypothesis is that folks had for years settled into lifestyles that didn't involve going to bars, and moved into zones that had few or no bars. When the city banned…

Online dating also started to take off about the same time that smoking in bars was banned. Between online video games and online dating, the options for "socializing" after work have increased substantially in the last 20 years.

Re: Europe’s cities are making less room for cars after coronavirus

#96
post #91
post #11

I'm perplexed by the comments here. Some cities have seen greater business increases on pedestrian and bike converted through-ways because people in cars weren't just passing by. Bikers and pedestrians stopped and shopped in the areas they were traveling through. I, for one, look forward to making a choice to move to a place where I can live car-free and hope more cities accelerate plans like this.

> where I can live car-free and hope more cities accelerate plans like this. You seriously want to live in a car-free society after COVID19? The subway in NY was a major source of infection in the city.

[deleted]

Re: Europe’s cities are making less room for cars after coronavirus

#97
post #91
post #11

I'm perplexed by the comments here. Some cities have seen greater business increases on pedestrian and bike converted through-ways because people in cars weren't just passing by. Bikers and pedestrians stopped and shopped in the areas they were traveling through. I, for one, look forward to making a choice to move to a place where I can live car-free and hope more cities accelerate plans like this.

> where I can live car-free and hope more cities accelerate plans like this. You seriously want to live in a car-free society after COVID19? The subway in NY was a major source of infection in the city.

To be clear, NY handled everything poorly. Taipei has a metro. It's fine.

New Orleans has no metro. It's fucked.

Re: Europe’s cities are making less room for cars after coronavirus

#98
post #93
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I live in Tokyo and I can assure you that living car-free is lovely. I used to love driving, then moved here and stopped caring altogether when I realized that public transport here is significantly faster (and cheaper) than using your car to go from point A to point B.

> I live in Tokyo and I can assure you that living car-free is lovely So you really enjoy packed subways that make you feel like cattle pretty much every time of the day? Sorry but Tokyo is the best example of "best in class public transport" being completely over capacity for the amount of people they have to transport every day.

In my personal opinion, better that than trawling slowly through traffic jams. If their train system is over capacity, more people moving through cars would be even more of a nightmare.

The feeling of independence (or not feeling like “cattle“) is substantially reduced in big cities, where you are subjected to a lot of traffic rules, overcrowding of cars, jaywalkers, accidents, potholes, diversions, expensive parking space... I could go on.

Re: Europe’s cities are making less room for cars after coronavirus

#99
post #15
post #11

I'm perplexed by the comments here. Some cities have seen greater business increases on pedestrian and bike converted through-ways because people in cars weren't just passing by. Bikers and pedestrians stopped and shopped in the areas they were traveling through. I, for one, look forward to making a choice to move to a place where I can live car-free and hope more cities accelerate plans like this.

I live in Tokyo and I can assure you that living car-free is lovely. I used to love driving, then moved here and stopped caring altogether when I realized that public transport here is significantly faster (and cheaper) than using your car to go from point A to point B.

Please note that European cities are moving away from traditional public transportation (buses, underground, etc.) in favour of personal transportation such as bikes and scooters.

Re: Europe’s cities are making less room for cars after coronavirus

#100

This seems really short-sited given the reality of pandemics. Walking or biking or high utilization of public transport implies high density. In a pandemic, the more people you encounter, the higher the chance of contracting the disease. Cars decrease density by increasing the effective area where people can work/shop/live. The area accessible grows as the square of the distance you can travel. In addition, in a car,…

Walking or biking does not always imply high density! On the other hand, public transportation can easily get crowded. That is one reason why European cities are moving away from public transportation in favour of bikes, scooters and so on. Finally, I agree that it would be better to encourage car usage during a pandemic. One reasonable reason not to do so is that parking spots are limited.
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