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Europe’s cities are making less room for cars after coronavirus

citylab.com

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Re: Europe’s cities are making less room for cars after coronavirus

#71

Post by graeme »

ghaff wrote: post #55
Barrin92 wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I never even got a drivers license and have lived just fine so I'm also always shocked by the comments here in transport-related threads when people talk about not having a car as if this is somehow a fantasy utopian vision. And this also I might add includes families with children. While I don't have any I know a lot of parents who don't rely on cars either.

I have zero trouble understanding that owning a personal car may not make economic sense in many cities. I have more trouble really grokking the no driver license. So many trips associated with both work and vacation experiences--or even weekend activities outside of a city--require renting a car. I guess you can consciously avoid those situations but it seems very limiting. (Certainly I couldn't really have done job…

Seeing the off the beaten path countryside is the one thing I miss about not using cars. I have a license, but only really learned to drive comfortably in my home area.

But the bulk of work and vacations are fine. For work I’m usually in denser cities or can use Uber/taxis. For vacation, I also generally go to places with train infrastructure, or to a specific destination where a car isn’t needed.

Re: Europe’s cities are making less room for cars after coronavirus

#73

Post by mjmahone17 »

ghaff wrote: post #61
clairity wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

growing up i remember sorta envying the kids who got hardship licenses at 14, allowed for teens to drive to work and contribute income to their family, completely ignoring the familial/financial situation borne of that. in that small, mostly suburban city, everyone drove, and everyone got their license by 16 (unless you failed your test a bunch of times). imagine my shock when i went to college with a bunch of kids f…

If I lived in Boston--as opposed to a fairly far out exurb--I could imagine not owning a car given that I mostly work remotely. Though I probably still would so I could get out to mountains, etc. for the weekend. In any case, I would certainly want to be able to drive so I could do various vacations and sometimes necessary work driving. Some of this is less common in Uber days but certainly not non-existent. My point…

When do you need to? If your family never drives, you wouldn’t see a need to.

It’s almost like asking “well wouldn’t you want to be able to go camping?” Sure, if you grew up camping you might know you want that. But if you didn’t, why would you even think about going camping?

Similarly, if you’ve only lived in a city where you can hire a driver (cabs, moving vans, etc) as needed, why would you ever think you need to be able to drive? What is the situation you’ll be in where you need a license?

Re: Europe’s cities are making less room for cars after coronavirus

#74

Post by clairity »

ghaff wrote: post #61
clairity wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

growing up i remember sorta envying the kids who got hardship licenses at 14, allowed for teens to drive to work and contribute income to their family, completely ignoring the familial/financial situation borne of that. in that small, mostly suburban city, everyone drove, and everyone got their license by 16 (unless you failed your test a bunch of times). imagine my shock when i went to college with a bunch of kids f…

If I lived in Boston--as opposed to a fairly far out exurb--I could imagine not owning a car given that I mostly work remotely. Though I probably still would so I could get out to mountains, etc. for the weekend. In any case, I would certainly want to be able to drive so I could do various vacations and sometimes necessary work driving. Some of this is less common in Uber days but certainly not non-existent. My point…

agreed, having a license is still useful for renting cars as needed, which i do periodically myself.

Re: Europe’s cities are making less room for cars after coronavirus

#75

Post by adrianN »

KirinDave wrote: post #70
05 wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unless you’re a woman

Actually that's a very interesting question. Is the rate of sexual assault on Japanese Trains higher or lower than their average auto injury rate?

It's a lot higher. But I wouldn't be so sure whether chronic back pain from a car crash is better or worse than being groped in a train.

Re: Europe’s cities are making less room for cars after coronavirus

#76

Post by def8cefe »

SECProto wrote: post #41
daenz wrote: post #23

Anecdotally, where I live in Seattle, the people who are still driving are driving like maniacs...speeding, ignoring stop signs, lights, etc. There may be more room for cyclists, but it doesn't really feel safer.

> Anecdotally, where I live in Seattle, the people who are still driving are driving like maniacs...speeding, ignoring stop signs, lights, etc This is likely similar everywhere. Traffic controls idiots speeding. For another anecdote, check out these statistics from Toronto [1], approx 460% year-over-year increase in stunting charges ("stunting" being the charge when someone is going more than 50km/hr over the speed l…

It's not just because of less traffic. Police are over-stretched right now, as is the entire justice system due to Covid-19. A lot of people are taking advantage of this and many types of crime are way up. (I'm also Toronto area)

Re: Europe’s cities are making less room for cars after coronavirus

#78

Post by naskwo »

tobylane wrote: post #44
SECProto wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm having a lot of trouble trying to conceptualize how "car/bike traffic" could be a giffen good. "A product that people consume more of as the price rises". Raising/creating tolls for cars decreases usage. Raising bus prices also discourages use. Could you help clarify what you meant? As for road space usage, generally bike lanes are added by adjusting street parking, narrowing lanes, etc. Eg I worked on a recent p…

London’s Embankment from Westminster to Blackfriars (and the rest of CS3 on other roads) added a bike lane by removing car capacity despite it being full every rush hour. The road as a whole has higher throughput now. https://www.alamy.com/stock-photo-cycle-lane-superhighway-em...

A safe bike route from SW to NE, e.g. Fulham to Shoreditch, would be lovely.

Re: Europe’s cities are making less room for cars after coronavirus

#79

Post by petre »

2019-nCoV wrote: post #63
btilly wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reminds me of bars in NYC back when smoking bans were implemented. They all thought they would lose business. They gained it instead as new customers who had been avoiding bars because of the smell of smoke flocked there instead.

That analogy breaks down as smokers had no alternative. After bars banned smoking they lost few (if any) smoking customers while relishing in troves from the non-smoking demographic. Car-centric Viennese can still avoid Begegnungszonen.

Of course they did: quit smoking, smoke outside.

Re: Europe’s cities are making less room for cars after coronavirus

#80

Post by petre »

Barrin92 wrote: post #60
ghaff wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have zero trouble understanding that owning a personal car may not make economic sense in many cities. I have more trouble really grokking the no driver license. So many trips associated with both work and vacation experiences--or even weekend activities outside of a city--require renting a car. I guess you can consciously avoid those situations but it seems very limiting. (Certainly I couldn't really have done job…

Growing up we didn't have a lot of money and my family didn't have a car, (and a license in Germany is quite expensive, about 1k and it involves a ton of lessons) or vacations, so I basically just bolted to a university town when I was 18 and as a developer in an urban environment, I've never needed one since. Nowadays as an adult, I think on vacations it might actually be a good thing because I've found just taking…

You should probably see the trains in some Eastern European countries then. Slow and dirty.
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