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A Third Solution

paulbuchheit.blogspot.com

431–440 of 535 posts

Re: A Third Solution

#431

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The arithmetic on that is ~1 million early deaths in the US. Sorry that's baseless histeria. We can easily think through how healthy people go back to normal (exponentially lower fatality rate than elderly/sick), while vulnerable take more precaution, how then getting to 60% of population gives us herd immunity which grinds R0 to a halt. Then a vaccine arrives in 18 months. Not to mention heat/humidity/summer is be…

New York (state) deaths per infection assuming ~10% overall spread: 10000/(0.1 * (20 million)) = 0.005 Arithmetic to scale that to ~60% of the US: 0.005 * 0.6 * 330 million = 990000 Of course that is hugely sensitive to the assumptions about the overall infection rate in New York and the immunity factor, but like I said, the arithmetic on what you said leads to ~1 million early deaths.

No, if elderly/vulnerable continue precaution, more like range(.001 - .0001) x .6 x 330 million = 20k - 200k deaths

Add in supposed summer slow down and before we get a vaccine the numbers could be 10x less

There are 12k cases in Singapore and 12 deaths because they almost exclusively tested foreign worker dormitories, healthy working people (and the 12 are all elderly).

Re: A Third Solution

#432
post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What TRL are you at for the original POC test, and what TRL are you at for viral detection? Any published papers for viral detection?

Are TRLs usually used outside of government R&D related things? If they got an SBIR I guess they'd be familiar with the technology, but I'm only familiar with it because of DoD funding applications and stuff, it's not terminology I've seen used in the private sector too much. Maybe it is, I'm curious to know if that's the case. I've usually only heard stages of tech development discussed in terms of preclinical, clin…

Agreed. TRL (tech readiness level) isn't something commonly used outside government.

Re: A Third Solution

#433

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The arithmetic on that is ~1 million early deaths in the US. Sorry that's baseless histeria. We can easily think through how healthy people go back to normal (exponentially lower fatality rate than elderly/sick), while vulnerable take more precaution, how then getting to 60% of population gives us herd immunity which grinds R0 to a halt. Then a vaccine arrives in 18 months. Not to mention heat/humidity/summer is be…

I like how you're ignoring the organ damage in even younger survivors like it's rosacea or something.

I like how you're pulling the fear card instead of contributing to a real discussion

Re: A Third Solution

#434
post #365

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Testing by itself does nothing to reduce transmission. What it does do, though, is give you the opportunity to identify infected people and isolate them. And if you can identify and isolate them early enough in the course of their illness, you can prevent them from infecting many other people, and that’s what reduces transmission. Given that it appears people with COVID-19 can shed the disease for many days before sh…

Right, but I haven't seen anything to suggest our current testing plans will be universal or frequent enough to really solve this. So testing more is certainly better than not testing, but without constant testing of non-sick people it's not really going to help much. "Quantity has a quality all it's own"

The article specifically is about a solution which would enable enormous amounts of people for cheap, so you can do universal tests.

Re: A Third Solution

#436
Unless we have a fool-proof self test kit that is so cheap to mass produce and distribute so everyone can use it every morning by simply dropping saliva and the result is available within 5 minutes while the probability of false-negative/false-positive are practically zero, A Third Solution the linked article suggested never happens.

There are 7 billion humans in the world. Even the very low probability of false-negative lead to millions of infected people go outside, or millions of healthy people rushed to the hospital for detailed test every day.

Re: A Third Solution

#437
post #216

I was curious about the company that's being touted in this post so I did a little searching. The website doesn't seem to have much on it. I guess it's a YC17 company. The founders are Caroline Landau, Tim Cornell, Walker McHugh. From 2016: Landau was an MBA candidate, the other two founders have biomedical research/medical backgrounds: Walker McHugh, Co-Founder, PreDxion Bio / Biomedical engineering candidate, Unive…

The next Theranos. Got it.

Re: A Third Solution

#438

Quotes from the article: “It’s easy to fall into dystopian visions of the future — a world shut down by one virus after another” “It doesn’t have to be that way. ..... Ubiquitous screening is the key.” The approach is interesting and the possibility of eliminating large scale spread of covid, flu and others is attractive. However the idea of requiring a saliva swab from every visitor to an office or event has the pot…

Reminds me of that access control system in the movie Gattaca, where you had to give a blood sample ;-)

https://i.pinimg.com/736x/ac/aa/b0/acaab01e6647159309f680844...

Re: A Third Solution

#439
post #22

This isn't a unique idea. This is the mainstream view. Everyone knows we need more testing and that testing is the only way to effectively ease distancing rules. That was a pretty extensive writeup to say what we've been hearing from all rational information outlets for a month.

I have not found any mainstream sources that advocate screening everyone every day (which is very different from simply doing "more testing"). Would love some pointers if I'm wrong.

Christian Drosten (German virologist, one of the most prominent experts here) has been advocating daily testing of medical workers. This is a slightly easier situation, since you can trust them to swab themselves, and the logistics for collecting samples is already in place.

Re: A Third Solution

#440
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have not found any mainstream sources that advocate screening everyone every day (which is very different from simply doing "more testing"). Would love some pointers if I'm wrong.

Every single country that has had any success containing the virus, including the origin country of China, has had rigorous continuous testing to contain the spread. It's hard to find a country with success containing the outbreak that doesn't do constant ubiquitous testing.

> Every single country that has had any success containing the virus ... has had rigorous continuous testing to contain the spread

That's demonstrably false. There are numerous prominent examples in fact.

Taiwan is not doing a high rate of testing at all, they're most certainly not doing constant ubiquitous testing. Their per capita test rate is 1/7 that of the US.

Singapore and South Korea are not doing constant ubiquitous testing. The US has already tested at a higher rate than South Korea and will pass Singapore shortly given the continued ramp in US testing. Both are held up as marvels of virus containment.

Japan has barely done any testing. They're seeing a small spike in cases now, however they were not earlier (this is four plus months after the outbreak began and Japan is next to China). Their deaths from Covid are commonly 1/50 to 1/150 the per capita rate of the US and other higher outbreak nations, while doing 1/10 to 1/15 the testing. The only explanation is either that they're covering up ten thousand deaths, or the other non-testing approaches they've utilized work well. Compare Japan to Germany on Covid deaths - again, despite Japan being next to China - and then look at the testing rates. Now explain that.

Finland is testing below the US rate and has contained the outbreak to a stellar degree. That's because Helsinki is colder than Stockholm and Copenhagen. The same reason Moscow didn't get slammed until more recently as the weather began to warm up. There are other factors that impact the spread of the virus, including the rate of social activity and high temperatures (over ~60F / ~15.5C). We know this from several studies that have proven the role of temperature in the spread of SARS and SARS-CoV-2; as well as understanding how the spread benefits from greater social activity (which doesn't occur at the same rate in super cold climates).

Greece has a very low number of Covid deaths and no evidence of serious outbreak this entire time. Their testing rate is 1/3 that of the US. And they're wedged between Turkey and Italy. Much like southern Italy, they've been heavily shielded by their climate. Nobody wants to talk about this of course, it's the Mexico / Texas / San Diego / Baghdad / Lagos effect in action.

Iraq isn't seeing any consequential outbreak, thanks to its climate. Whereas Iran right next door got smashed, because Tehran has an entirely different climate from Baghdad.

Thailand and Vietnam are both testing at a very low rate, and there has been zero evidence of serious outbreaks in either country, despite the proximity to China. That's thanks to their hotter climates.

Nigeria is barely testing at all, with zero evidence of a consequential outbreak there. No crushing of their healthcare system with cases or deaths; no huge spike in deaths, hospitalizations or ICU cases. There are numerous countries across Africa seeing similar low outbreak results, with very little testing.

Colombia isn't seeing a consequential outbreak, their testing rate is super low. They're not seeing a healthcare crush either. They've contained it so far without a high rate of testing.

India and Pakistan were supposed to get buried by SARS-CoV-2 cases. It hasn't happened, week after week goes by and the predictions continue to fail to come true. They're barely doing any testing at all. There's zero evidence in either country of a massive outbreak or crushing number of ICU cases swamping their healthcare systems. It's because of how hot their cities are. I've yet to see a single other good explanation for why India isn't buried in Covid deaths by now. India isn't seeing the virus hit for the same reason Africa hasn't.

Egypt is barely doing any testing. Cairo should have millions of cases of the virus and a huge number of deaths by now. They should have 20,000 dead people from Covid at this point just in Cairo. Where is it? The Cairo metro has 20 million people. It's not far from Italy, Turkey, or Iran. Guess what? It's very hot in Cairo.

And if you want to see a belligerent demonstration of the climate impact in action: tell me that Florida has been dramatically more responsible in their behavior than Belgium has (or France, or Italy, or Spain, or the UK, or the Netherlands, or Switzerland), to warrant having a per capita Covid mortality rate 1/12th that of Belgium. If Florida had New York's climate, Florida would have 20k Covid deaths by now. Instead they have a mere 1,066 (and Florida has a lot of old people) despite doing almost everything wrong.

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