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How to make pizza like a Neapolitan master

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Re: How to make pizza like a Neapolitan master

#231

Post by omnimus »

karatestomp wrote: post #227
gregkerzhner wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think both with coffee and beer there are two classes of establishment - the average city cafe or bar, and then the specialty "artisanal" establishment in big cities. My guess would be that the coffee at an average Italian town square bar is better than the same coffee at a coffee shop in Spain or France or the USA. However, it's not going to be anywhere on par with a specialty coffee shop in Manhattan that has sea…

> The interesting twist with Germany is that the same beer purity laws that originally allowed them to become a beer leader in the world are now holding them back in the craft beer revolution. They can break those rules all they want and just not call what they're making "beer", right?

Yes. And its not like "craft" beer is somehow harder to make than lagers. Largers are actually one of the most complicated to brew and smaller German breweries do make wonderfuly crazy craft beers.

Besides traditions the craft beer "revolution" is due to hops. US climate and innovation brought new hop varieties that are crutial. To make craft beer you pretty much have to import US hops.

Re: How to make pizza like a Neapolitan master

#232

Post by notJim »

gregkerzhner wrote: post #221
omnimus wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As european coffee fan Italys coffee is just overrated. The lowest quality, might be a bit better than elsewhere but best rosteries and cafes are generally in London, Berlin (number of great cafes and roasters there are of the charts) and scandinavia. But you will find really good cafes in any bigger city (including Italy). And even quality roasters are decentralized. The problem is not so much roasting but getting t…

I think both with coffee and beer there are two classes of establishment - the average city cafe or bar, and then the specialty "artisanal" establishment in big cities. My guess would be that the coffee at an average Italian town square bar is better than the same coffee at a coffee shop in Spain or France or the USA. However, it's not going to be anywhere on par with a specialty coffee shop in Manhattan that has sea…

From my experience, it's more about culture and expectations than anything. You'll occasionally get a shop that can stand above its city, but eventually it'll regress to the mean. Here in the PNW you can walk into any coffee shop and get a good coffee about 50–75% of the time. In NYC, I'd say it's more like 10%. I think it's because people in NYC don't value coffee very much, or care only superficially. On the flipside, even shitty bagels in NYC are better than most of what you can get here. I hated all the coffee I had in France, but it might be because they prefer a bitter cup to be drunk with sugar, rather than the black coffee we drink in the US.

Re: How to make pizza like a Neapolitan master

#233

Post by tigershark »

misiti3780 wrote: post #99
albmoriconi wrote: post #52

I am from Naples and eat regularly at Gino Sorbillo's and Ciro Salvo's places. As it often happens here, everyone will swear by its pretty small and obscure "favorite place", but they are masters without doubt ;) The dough recipe from the article is pretty legit and exactly the way I do it at home; the main problem I see is that it would be pretty hard to find good Mozzarella or Fiordilatte cheese (Fiordilatte di Age…

Ciao, Come siete ? I'm not sure if you have ever been to NYC but an interesting observation I have had with Gino Sorbillo is the pizza in Napoli is very good, but he/they opened a restaurant in NYC and it's absolutely average at best. I assume they import everything, but quality wise, the places are polar opposites. Also curious your thoughts of Da Michele?

Not sure in NY, there I tried only ovest and a couple of others so I can’t really judge. In London I tried all the famous ones: Da Michele, 50 Kalò, Sartori, Santa Maria, Santorè, Franco Manca and probably many others that I don’t remember now. Da Michele I think is a bit overrated. In 50 Kalò I appreciated a lot the extremely fresh and flavourful ingredients but the pizza dough was not the best. Santa Maria, at least the original in Ealing Broadway, is probably more tasty and balanced compared to the others above. Franco Manca has a pretty good price/quality ratio, but it’s not as good as the previous ones. As a matter of personal preference Sartori is the best that I tried in London, just a sliver above all the very nice ones cited before, and also a bit better than his “twin” place Santorè. I’d like to go back to Napoli and try Sorbillo’s pizza there. In my place in Italy I can’t find a pizza as good as London, for what is worth...

Re: How to make pizza like a Neapolitan master

#234

Post by pachico »

misiti3780 wrote: post #99
albmoriconi wrote: post #52

I am from Naples and eat regularly at Gino Sorbillo's and Ciro Salvo's places. As it often happens here, everyone will swear by its pretty small and obscure "favorite place", but they are masters without doubt ;) The dough recipe from the article is pretty legit and exactly the way I do it at home; the main problem I see is that it would be pretty hard to find good Mozzarella or Fiordilatte cheese (Fiordilatte di Age…

Ciao, Come siete ? I'm not sure if you have ever been to NYC but an interesting observation I have had with Gino Sorbillo is the pizza in Napoli is very good, but he/they opened a restaurant in NYC and it's absolutely average at best. I assume they import everything, but quality wise, the places are polar opposites. Also curious your thoughts of Da Michele?

"come state" :)

Re: How to make pizza like a Neapolitan master

#236

Post by systemvoltage »

colinjoy wrote: post #226
systemvoltage wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most people have a hard time measuring 0.02% baking percentage of 200g flour. Not because they don't know what grams is, but because they don't have the equipment or means to measure it. Everytime I hear someone say things about units, it is not that people don't understand - there are other issues around that. For example, Americans know that metric system is better but they can't just switch solo until the entire n…

> for e.g. Switzerland still uses points for fonts! Not mm. Anybody who deals with typography in any professional capacity does so. It is the normal, not some obscure Swiss habit.

That's my point that supports "America is the only country in the world that still doesn't use metric units." - well, they tried. Many times: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metrication_in_the_United_Stat...

It is sometimes hard to get rid of 100+ years of history, in the case of typography thats probably longer.

Re: How to make pizza like a Neapolitan master

#237

Post by tigershark »

airstrike wrote: post #124
misiti3780 wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ciao, Come siete ? I'm not sure if you have ever been to NYC but an interesting observation I have had with Gino Sorbillo is the pizza in Napoli is very good, but he/they opened a restaurant in NYC and it's absolutely average at best. I assume they import everything, but quality wise, the places are polar opposites. Also curious your thoughts of Da Michele?

Try Pizzarte and Naples 45 in Midtown And for a different type of pizza but honestly my favorite pizza on Earth, try the Portobello pizza at Mediterraneo on the UES. They have no idea how good that pizza is otherwise they'd turn the whole place into a pizzeria and just do that everyday

Ah right, pizzarte was another one that I tried in NY, almost forgot. It’s really good, but still not at the level at the best that I tried in London or in Italy in my opinion.

Re: How to make pizza like a Neapolitan master

#238

Post by tigershark »

bearzoo wrote: post #196
airstrike wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Try Pizzarte and Naples 45 in Midtown And for a different type of pizza but honestly my favorite pizza on Earth, try the Portobello pizza at Mediterraneo on the UES. They have no idea how good that pizza is otherwise they'd turn the whole place into a pizzeria and just do that everyday

in NYC una is the best i've found. it easily competes with the best in naples (in my opinion)

Thanks for the tip, I’m going to check after coronavirus.. if we still survive.

Re: How to make pizza like a Neapolitan master

#239

Post by tigershark »

omnimus wrote: post #216
karatestomp wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The beans are the most important part - you should get them roasted within the last few weeks. That's the key. When I buy mid-range beans (usually what I do—the good stuff's expensive) my pourovers are really just manual drip coffee. Fine, but just... coffee. When I use really good beans, though? It's a whole different drink. All kinds of nuance and delicate flavors. The tiers I've found are basically: truly bad co…

As european coffee fan Italys coffee is just overrated. The lowest quality, might be a bit better than elsewhere but best rosteries and cafes are generally in London, Berlin (number of great cafes and roasters there are of the charts) and scandinavia. But you will find really good cafes in any bigger city (including Italy). And even quality roasters are decentralized. The problem is not so much roasting but getting t…

Absolutely not. Source: I’m Italian, I live in London, been to Berlin a couple of times, in the best case you can get something drinkable but nothing comparable to a nice espresso in Italy. I was actually surprised to find a pretty nice illy coffe in Kobe train station, but then I also found a very good Naples pizza in that city.

Re: How to make pizza like a Neapolitan master

#240

Post by bsder »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #197
misiti3780 wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ciao, Come siete ? I'm not sure if you have ever been to NYC but an interesting observation I have had with Gino Sorbillo is the pizza in Napoli is very good, but he/they opened a restaurant in NYC and it's absolutely average at best. I assume they import everything, but quality wise, the places are polar opposites. Also curious your thoughts of Da Michele?

Given the stories I hear from pretty much everyone in my circle who's been to the US, there's a general problem with food there tasting bland, in comparison to Europe. Like others, I suspect the ingredients in the States are worse for some reason (perhaps they've been optimized too much for shelf life).

Send them to Santa Fe.

Bland will NOT be your problem.

However, you have to understand that a lot of the US really doesn't deal well with food that isn't bland--a holdover from WWII rationing and canned foods, probably. IIRC, McDonalds(?) went through a huge engineering process to attempt to add an ingredient to their pipeline. They found that adding cucumber was fine, but avocado was a step too far for the midwest.

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