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How to make pizza like a Neapolitan master

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221–230 of 297 posts

Re: How to make pizza like a Neapolitan master

#221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The beans are the most important part - you should get them roasted within the last few weeks. That's the key. When I buy mid-range beans (usually what I do—the good stuff's expensive) my pourovers are really just manual drip coffee. Fine, but just... coffee. When I use really good beans, though? It's a whole different drink. All kinds of nuance and delicate flavors. The tiers I've found are basically: truly bad co…

As european coffee fan Italys coffee is just overrated. The lowest quality, might be a bit better than elsewhere but best rosteries and cafes are generally in London, Berlin (number of great cafes and roasters there are of the charts) and scandinavia. But you will find really good cafes in any bigger city (including Italy). And even quality roasters are decentralized. The problem is not so much roasting but getting t…

I think both with coffee and beer there are two classes of establishment - the average city cafe or bar, and then the specialty "artisanal" establishment in big cities. My guess would be that the coffee at an average Italian town square bar is better than the same coffee at a coffee shop in Spain or France or the USA. However, it's not going to be anywhere on par with a specialty coffee shop in Manhattan that has searched the world and handpicked its bean flavor profiles to perfection.

It's the same thing with beer and Germany. The average beer in a random town brewery somewhere in Germany is tastier than a Budweiser, but as a beer lover, I would much rather end up at a beer bar with a 100 different beers on tap in a place like London or New York.

The interesting twist with Germany is that the same beer purity laws that originally allowed them to become a beer leader in the world are now holding them back in the craft beer revolution.

Re: How to make pizza like a Neapolitan master

#222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really wish this wine meme would die. Essentially every test done to ‘prove’ that there’s no difference between cheap and expensive wines has had two massive flaws: 1. The label of ‘wine expert’ is left undefined. True sommeliers have spent thousands of hours studying wine and are not the same thing as a guy that takes a weekend wine-tasting course and gets a certificate. Yet most ‘studies’ fail to mention this. Ju…

In other words, it is possible to tell the difference between cheap and expensive wines, but only if you’re so far along the hedonism treadmill that you’ve literally spent thousands of hours training for a career in it.

Replace wines with something you personally find interesting or rewarding and you'll see why 'hedonism treadmill' is a poor choice of words.

Re: How to make pizza like a Neapolitan master

#223
post #126

I can't speak to pizza, but I have an espresso story to tell. One of my favorite things about going to Italy is the quality of the coffee. I really like extreme dark roast (your typical American diner coffee doesn't even count as coffee in my book). In Italy you can go into pretty much any coffee shop and come away with a top-quality espresso. (Don't even get me started on Starbucks.) It's a taste I inherited from my…

It's odd that you went from one end of the spectrum (trying to refine your technique and failing) to the complete opposite (a Keurig). Surely there's a middle ground. For example, the Rancilio Silvia [1] is known to be one of the best and most tweakable/hackable home machines for manually brewed espresso. It can make great Italian espresso out of the box, but there's also a healthy community around it that hacks the…

I used to have a Gaggia Classic with an updated steam wand that did pretty well. I think it ranks well against the Racillio and is cheaper. It's basically the cheapest decent machine you can buy, AFAIK. People also hack it, with PID controller mods and such.

Re: How to make pizza like a Neapolitan master

#224
post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Grams are a thing ;)

Most people have a hard time measuring 0.02% baking percentage of 200g flour. Not because they don't know what grams is, but because they don't have the equipment or means to measure it. Everytime I hear someone say things about units, it is not that people don't understand - there are other issues around that. For example, Americans know that metric system is better but they can't just switch solo until the entire n…

[deleted]

Re: How to make pizza like a Neapolitan master

#225
post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I recently went to Naples and IMO the secret to just how amazing everything tastes there is the quality of produce. I don't know whether you can even export it - I don't know whether that kind of quality travels. On the Netflix show ugly delicious one of the chefs explain supposedly in Naples chefs will choose their mozzarella freshness by the hour (e.g. 6 hours or 12 hours) but to make "authentic" Neapolitan pizza w…

yes -- but on the same show they highlighted people making ridiculous high quality fresh naples-style pizza in other countries other than italy - japan, denmark, etc. the cheese is the hardest part of the pizza to replicate outside of italy for sure, you can easily buy high quality imported olive oil, flour, and san marzano tomatos.

I don't know, I think the tomatoes you find in Italy are far superior to anything I have found in the US. I still dream of the bruschetta in Tuscany.

Re: How to make pizza like a Neapolitan master

#226
post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Grams are a thing ;)

Most people have a hard time measuring 0.02% baking percentage of 200g flour. Not because they don't know what grams is, but because they don't have the equipment or means to measure it. Everytime I hear someone say things about units, it is not that people don't understand - there are other issues around that. For example, Americans know that metric system is better but they can't just switch solo until the entire n…

> for e.g. Switzerland still uses points for fonts! Not mm.

Anybody who deals with typography in any professional capacity does so. It is the normal, not some obscure Swiss habit.

Re: How to make pizza like a Neapolitan master

#227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As european coffee fan Italys coffee is just overrated. The lowest quality, might be a bit better than elsewhere but best rosteries and cafes are generally in London, Berlin (number of great cafes and roasters there are of the charts) and scandinavia. But you will find really good cafes in any bigger city (including Italy). And even quality roasters are decentralized. The problem is not so much roasting but getting t…

I think both with coffee and beer there are two classes of establishment - the average city cafe or bar, and then the specialty "artisanal" establishment in big cities. My guess would be that the coffee at an average Italian town square bar is better than the same coffee at a coffee shop in Spain or France or the USA. However, it's not going to be anywhere on par with a specialty coffee shop in Manhattan that has sea…

> The interesting twist with Germany is that the same beer purity laws that originally allowed them to become a beer leader in the world are now holding them back in the craft beer revolution.

They can break those rules all they want and just not call what they're making "beer", right?

Re: How to make pizza like a Neapolitan master

#229

Neopolitan is a setup for failure in the home kitchen. It's one of the most demanding styles in terms of equipment and preparation. It makes zero sense to pursue it at home unless you actually have a very strong preference for this style (highly unlikely if commercial pizza is even a crude reflection of preferences). It's fetishism. It's sought because it has cultural cachet, it's hard to obtain, it's 'authentic', et…

> setup for failure ... most demanding ... makes zero sense ... It's fetishism. It's sought because it has cultural cachet, it's hard to obtain, it's 'authentic', etc.

Totally agree. There's beauty in such crazy pursuits, don't you think?

I shared the link in the spirit of HN, knowing this place is full of people who enjoy chasing obsessions that are risky, or just because, or because someone said it was impossible.

Long live kitchen hackers with zero sense! It's always enriching and occasionally successful. :-)

Re: How to make pizza like a Neapolitan master

#230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As european coffee fan Italys coffee is just overrated. The lowest quality, might be a bit better than elsewhere but best rosteries and cafes are generally in London, Berlin (number of great cafes and roasters there are of the charts) and scandinavia. But you will find really good cafes in any bigger city (including Italy). And even quality roasters are decentralized. The problem is not so much roasting but getting t…

I think both with coffee and beer there are two classes of establishment - the average city cafe or bar, and then the specialty "artisanal" establishment in big cities. My guess would be that the coffee at an average Italian town square bar is better than the same coffee at a coffee shop in Spain or France or the USA. However, it's not going to be anywhere on par with a specialty coffee shop in Manhattan that has sea…

Sad truth is that average Italian town square bar coffee will probably be the exact same global shit brand coffee as in German town square town. If they are different it has to do more with local traditions maybe more skill or higher quality machine.

But yeah that also means that there is someone obsesive in every bigger city trying to get the best stuff world has to offer.

In so many ways the tradition in italy holds it back in coffe world and holds Germany in beer world. But even the German/Czech beer purity laws are not the real problem its the tradition. It's hard to inovate when beer is super popular but everybody thinks beer equals lager. It's conservatism.

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