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Why are Soviet math textbooks so hardcore in comparison to US textbooks? (2017)

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Re: Why are Soviet math textbooks so hardcore in comparison to US textbooks? (2017)

#511

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do think it's worth adding, though, that from what I've heard (and given my own experiences), the culture in Oxford/Cambridge is not at all representative of University culture generally in British Universities.

True, yet they are some of the best universities not only in Britain, but in Europe and the world. So they are highly relevant in this discussion as we are talking about the top maths/physics education in each country for top students. E.g. when Russian universities/schools are mentioned here, it is usually Moscow State University or another top university or school that is assumed. And in many ways, e.g. when it com…

The criticism, then, should be directed at Oxbridge, and not at [almost] all other British universities which don't do this.

I went to Imperial College. "Work hard, play hard" was some kind of motto. Most people followed the first part, the second part was optional. There was more "play" at weekends, and less during the week, compared with my friends at other universities. Mostly, it meant focussing on work during the week to leave time at the weekend.

I remember two mentions of sport: when a friend turned out to be on the hockey C team, and when the student newspaper announced that we'd lost some traditional cup [1]. You can see just how little attention was given to the game by the number of spectators [2].

(It would help the UK if the drinking age for beer and wine were reduced to 16. People can then get too drunk and do silly stuff with some oversight from their parents, and be a bit more mature about it at university. See Denmark for a similar Northern European country with this.)

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bottle_Match

[2] https://twitter.com/hashtag/bottlematch2018

Re: Why are Soviet math textbooks so hardcore in comparison to US textbooks? (2017)

#512

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think on average the difference between a high school student from Russia and US is negligible I went to high school in Russia and then moved to Australia. The difference was immense. It felt like i just dropped 2 year levels. Even the accelerated programs were hopelessly behind the regular curriculum for my age group in Russia. AU/US high school students can't possibly compete against RU or CN high school studen…

Pretty much my experience as well moving from Russia to the US. Team sports and social deviance seem to dominate the popularity hierarchies of American schools (as of 2003). In Russia being the top student is respected instead.

Don't underestimate the importance of team sport. The good thing in the US is that team sport is huge for women too.

Re: Why are Soviet math textbooks so hardcore in comparison to US textbooks? (2017)

#513
All the answers (and discussion here) seems to take the title question as fact. My initial reaction was - and I should say at this point I'm neither from nor live in either country, and have no national pride or whatever to be wounded by who has the harder-core textbooks - are they actually? Or do they just cover different material, that the US curriculum happens to get to later?

It's a pity Quora doesn't have a question 'body', like StackExchange does for example, such that the asker could've given an example.

Re: Why are Soviet math textbooks so hardcore in comparison to US textbooks? (2017)

#514
post #133
post #32

Here is an interesting paper [1](PDF) by a Russian mathematician who has taught mathematics in Russia, USA and Brazil. He compares the "very successful usage of word problems in Russia and contradictory, inefficient and often immature treatment of word problems in USA." [1] http://toomandre.com/travel/sweden05/WP-SWEDEN-NEW.pdf

Wow, this is a great read! I'm on page 18 so far. It's been discussing how "word problems" are key to developing critical thinking skills, and how far behind the US seems to be in them. One point made: the idea that word problems can wait till algebra, which gives a universal method for solution, totally misses that they develop logic skills and practice with problem solving, which makes learning algebra so much easi…

This isn't the case anymore. US Common Core Math lessons use word problems from the first grade onward.

Re: Why are Soviet math textbooks so hardcore in comparison to US textbooks? (2017)

#515
post #423

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think on average the difference between a high school student from Russia and US is negligible I went to high school in Russia and then moved to Australia. The difference was immense. It felt like i just dropped 2 year levels. Even the accelerated programs were hopelessly behind the regular curriculum for my age group in Russia. AU/US high school students can't possibly compete against RU or CN high school studen…

My family is from Serbia (my parents were both mathematics teachers in Serbia) and I was raised here in Australia. It's definitely true that the curriculum is many years behind even relatively poor and corrupt countries (like Serbia). As a toy example, my parents taught me how to solve simultaneous equations in year 4 (when they'd have taught it in Serbia) while everyone else had to wait until year 9 to learn it in s…

> we're doing a massive disservice to our young people which they will have to overcome for the rest of their lives.

Is this actually the case? Much of the most useful science & software comes from people educated in the Americas and Western Europe. I think that non-western schooling methodologies under-value problem solving and overvalue "raw" knowledge.

Re: Why are Soviet math textbooks so hardcore in comparison to US textbooks? (2017)

#516

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not the same, but I went from the Polish education system to a British university, and it also felt like it was a massive downgrade. What really surprised me was the core principle at British unversities - "don't assume prior knowledge of anything". It basically meant that on a CS course, they teach you basic level maths, basic programming skills, you spend the entire 1st year of university learning what we learnt in…

> What really surprised me was the core principle at British unversities - "don't assume prior knowledge of anything". My experience was that even if all of the students prior to university studied maths A-Levels, we all studied different topics. Before those two year A-Levels, we all studied different topics in GCSEs. There is so much time wasted giving everyone the same knowledge because of how our system is set up…

Different exam boards is not the reason -- a single exam board can (and does) offer the flexibility of topic in areas the National Curriculum allows this, and sticks to what's prescribed elsewhere.

I think if you feel time is wasted for something like history, geography etc that people have uneven knowledge of, that's because they've failed to learn the techniques or fundamentals, and can only apply what they've learned to a single topic. There's little difference to everyone having to study WWII at GCSE, then only knowing what (not why) at A-level.

Science and maths have a lot less flexibility.

Re: Why are Soviet math textbooks so hardcore in comparison to US textbooks? (2017)

#517

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It was always strange to me seeing all those American movies of the "nerds"/geeks getting persecuted by the "cool" kids, it certainly didn't happen to kids in my school and I'm pretty sure it generally didn't happen to kids generally around the country. In the United State there is an extreme anti-intellectual bias among conservative middle and lower class whites.

Intellectualism and being a "nerd" is appreciated in black Democratic strongholds?

There was this movie called Black Panther, you may or may not have heard of it....

Re: Why are Soviet math textbooks so hardcore in comparison to US textbooks? (2017)

#518

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, that’s what I meant (and I for intersectionality). Agreed that CRT/I would oppose standardized tests, but that’s only because CRT/I at its core opposes anything objective. And the philosophy of CRT/I has already made significant inroads in American culture. Witness all the accelerated programs that have been shut down, the many recent attacks on objective standards—all in the name of “equity” (which does not mea…

Examples would be good.

https://quillette.com/2018/09/07/academic-activists-send-a-p...

Re: Why are Soviet math textbooks so hardcore in comparison to US textbooks? (2017)

#519
post #263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I got beat up, physically, by my peers This is a problem. Regardless of whether hyper-tracking is beneficial, no kid should have to suffer from this kind of bullying. I don't know why bullying in the U.S. is (or seems to be) so much worse than other countries.

Teachers in American schools are usually shit-scared of their students, which is the exact opposite of how things are in Russia, China, or even India. There are many reasons. Parents and students wield too much power in the American school system, and the idea of tying a school's funding to local property taxes makes this worse. In addition, America lacks the cultural norms of respect and deference for education and…

An American calls his or her parents "you" when talking to them.

Asians always address their parents with words meaning "mother" or "father". Calling them "you" is extremely rude.

We can go on and on how vastly different the norms on respecting parents (and teachers).

Re: Why are Soviet math textbooks so hardcore in comparison to US textbooks? (2017)

#520

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the UK at least, the way I read the situation is that most of the Russell Group pays their bills off the fees they can charge international students - and compared to the income this gets us from China, other countries are a rounding error. The problem is, these students are not coming here to learn how we're all equal, they're paying for a degree that proves they're very much not equal to about a billion people b…

It reminds me of a great bit from Yes Prime Minister: "Coffee at the University" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WW7mhtp5a5E

The part later in that episode where the PM shows up to the high table is pretty classic too.
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