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Lung damage in recovered Covid sufferers apparently permanent, research finds

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Re: Lung damage in recovered Covid sufferers apparently permanent, research finds

#51

Post by DanBC »

nil-sec wrote: post #50
DanBC wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have a look at the ICNARC reports. These show that lower BMI and no comorbidities is low risk, but not no risk. https://www.icnarc.org/Our-Audit/Audits/Cmp/Reports

Thank you for the link. It's great that we get these numbers now. The relevant table for this discussion seems to be table 10. From this it does become clear that a majority of all people who died did not have any severe comorbidities. However, playing devils advocate I would argue that 1) not all comorbidities are known. In this study they write: "Very severe comorbidities must have been evident within the six month…

The other point (that supports you) to make is that the ICNARC paper only looks at those admitted to ICUs. There may be lots of people who are seen by ICU as having very low chance of recovery, and then not admitted to ICU. These people may die at home or in a care home or nursing home.

Re: Lung damage in recovered Covid sufferers apparently permanent, research finds

#52

Post by amalter »

Aeolun wrote: post #47
ramblerman wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Young and healthy people are dying, but I think it's important to have some numbers for context. Italy publishes bi weekly full reports on it's deaths, here is April 20ths: https://www.epicentro.iss.it/en/coronavirus/bollettino/Repor... It's not unfair to state that this disease, is much, much more dangerous for the 65+ age group. That being said I don't agree with the grandparent OP.

> As of April 20 , 238 out of the 21,551 (1.1%) positive SARS-CoV-2 patients under the age of 50 died. In particular, 54 of these were less than 40 years (34 men and 20 women), age range between 0 and 39 years. For 6 patients under the age of 40 years no clinical information is available; the remaining 38 had serious pre-existing pathologies (cardiovascular, renal, psychiatric pathologies, diabetes, obesity) and 10 h…

Also how many unreported and cleared covid patients will end up with permanent injury?

In another post I described how I’m tracking a cohort here in the US of healthy young MDs who are experiencing symptoms consistent with lung injury +42 days after symptom clearance.

A bad flu does not limit you from athletics for life. COVID might. We just don’t know.

Re: Lung damage in recovered Covid sufferers apparently permanent, research finds

#53

Post by mirimir »

vmception wrote: post #2

> It is now undisputed that Covid-19 should be taken seriously as a serious illness. This is heavily disputed. I wonder what the threshold really is for changing that idea. Now that the death numbers are greater than the flu, we are still at the "those people were going to die within a year anyway" phase, and the "I am okay and have a BMI less than 30 so therefore people like me are okay" phase. Been watching the stu…

Why the fuck have so many downvoted this?

> This is heavily disputed.

That is a fact.

> edit: if anyone misread my quotes as personal opinion, they're not.

I know that discussing downvotes is boring. But this is so egregiously stupid that it's justified.

Re: Lung damage in recovered Covid sufferers apparently permanent, research finds

#55

Post by dingaling »

moogleii wrote: post #43
s9w wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Young and healthy people are dying too A datapoint against that: We have a renowned pathologist in Hamburg (Prof Püschel) who examines every corona death in the city - about 60 so far. He was quoted multiple times that every single victim had severe preexisting conditions. And that none of them would have lived another year. He also challenged the idea that healthy/young people are in danger and gave the example of…

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/05/magazine/first-coronaviru... He’s 33. You can find plenty more young and younger cases if you look. They are rarer than older cases but the idea that young people in general are not in danger is ridiculous. Hell, I’m 37, maybe on the border of young, and had to be hospitalized due to COVID and I had no preexisting conditions. Consider looking at a larger sample size than 60.

> Consider looking at a larger sample size than 60.

You used a sample size of one

Re: Lung damage in recovered Covid sufferers apparently permanent, research finds

#56

Post by true_religion »

orra wrote: post #41
zwischenzug wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The BBC is not state-run. It's an independent corporation funded by a specific tax. Governments have always complained about BBC bias against them since its inception.

Eh, the UK Government directly appoints some of the board members, and broadly dictates the terms of the Royal Charter and Licence Fee. Yes, the BBC has some operational independence. But it is fiction to pretend the government has no influence over it. Government complaints against the BBC are largely rhetoric. The reality is the BBC's most senior political correspondent, and many of their pundits, clearly support t…

In a popular democracy, it should never be shocking when the majority party in government receives support.

They couldn’t have become the majority without appealing to people’s opinions in the first place.

Re: Lung damage in recovered Covid sufferers apparently permanent, research finds

#57

Post by pm_me_ur_fullzz »

DanBC wrote: post #34
vmception wrote: post #2

> It is now undisputed that Covid-19 should be taken seriously as a serious illness. This is heavily disputed. I wonder what the threshold really is for changing that idea. Now that the death numbers are greater than the flu, we are still at the "those people were going to die within a year anyway" phase, and the "I am okay and have a BMI less than 30 so therefore people like me are okay" phase. Been watching the stu…

> we are still at the "those people were going to die within a year anyway" phase, and the "I am okay and have a BMI less than 30 so therefore people like me are okay" phase. That doesn't appear to be true if we look at the UK ICU data. BMI https://www.icnarc.org/Our-Audit/Audits/Cmp/Reports https://www.icnarc.org/DataServices/Attachments/Download/c9b... Body mass index, n (%) [N=4811] Over 60% of people admitted to…

Op here, good information, now convince the people that actually say those things I quoted?

Why did you post this, out of curiousity? I'm start to see a re-reading of how people interpreted my post, I thought the quotes were clear that I was talking about what other people say, in phases as they move the goal post.

Re: Lung damage in recovered Covid sufferers apparently permanent, research finds

#58

Post by pm_me_ur_fullzz »

acqq wrote: post #26
vmception wrote: post #2

> It is now undisputed that Covid-19 should be taken seriously as a serious illness. This is heavily disputed. I wonder what the threshold really is for changing that idea. Now that the death numbers are greater than the flu, we are still at the "those people were going to die within a year anyway" phase, and the "I am okay and have a BMI less than 30 so therefore people like me are okay" phase. Been watching the stu…

> if anyone misread my quotes as personal opinion, they're not. The way they are written, then simply ending them with yours " Been watching the studies closely though! " and pointing afterwards "mild symptoms recovered at home have permanent lung damage and divers cannot dive anymore." the message could still not be expected to be considered seriously. The whole message did in fact give an impression of agreement wi…

> The whole message did in fact give an impression of agreement with the quotes, basically as if only those who have bigger risk should have problem with it.

Op here.

Only because you were looking for agreement. And there in lies the flaw.

I stated what the filter bubbles exist and offered no opinion.

Why? Because its equally as likely to encounter a hoard of people would be looking for me to agree with their point of view, and derail this whole thread if I only talked about how dangerous and problematic covid is.

How about we just talk candidly about the different filter bubbles? How would one go about accomplishing that, in your words

Re: Lung damage in recovered Covid sufferers apparently permanent, research finds

#59

Post by pm_me_ur_fullzz »

DangerousPie wrote: post #40
squiggleblaz wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Shame this piece was downvoted so hard. Downvoters may agree with pm_me_ur_fullzz that people who dispute the seriousness of covid-19 are wrong, but downvoting the person who says "there are people out there who are wrong" will not cause those people who are wrong to disappear. If you want to make a problem go away, the first step is to talk about the problem.

Downvoting makes it obvious to any casual reader that the comment is heavily disputed and should not be relied upon.

lol, I disputed the idea that people don't dispute Covid's seriousness, and people thought I disputed Covid's seriousness and disputed the post itself. We have to go deeper.

Re: Lung damage in recovered Covid sufferers apparently permanent, research finds

#60

Post by tom_mellior »

Aeolun wrote: post #47
ramblerman wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Young and healthy people are dying, but I think it's important to have some numbers for context. Italy publishes bi weekly full reports on it's deaths, here is April 20ths: https://www.epicentro.iss.it/en/coronavirus/bollettino/Repor... It's not unfair to state that this disease, is much, much more dangerous for the 65+ age group. That being said I don't agree with the grandparent OP.

> As of April 20 , 238 out of the 21,551 (1.1%) positive SARS-CoV-2 patients under the age of 50 died. In particular, 54 of these were less than 40 years (34 men and 20 women), age range between 0 and 39 years. For 6 patients under the age of 40 years no clinical information is available; the remaining 38 had serious pre-existing pathologies (cardiovascular, renal, psychiatric pathologies, diabetes, obesity) and 10 h…

> I’m tempted to agree with OP that it seems like it’s more of a bad flu for younger people.

The point of the article we are discussing here is that with COVID-19 this is not a binary live/die situation. You can live but still have serious lasting lung damage, possibly lasting neurological problems as well. I'm not aware of the flu having similar effects after recovery.

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