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Ask HN: Are there any substantial examples of blockchain solving a real problem?

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Re: Ask HN: Are there any substantial examples of blockchain solving a real problem?

#171

Post by nevermindme80 »

noxer wrote: post #158
nevermindme80 wrote: post #155

Disclaimer: I am affiliated with the project I am describing below. You have a stab at one of the most important issues within the space here. You are right, most projects either do not have any utility or they are so far up their idea and tech that they think it will produce value by itself. Unfortunately, most things end here. For most, this value will never surpass the simple value of "exchanging value" or "storin…

What problem does it actually solve? We already have web search it may not be perfect and certainly does not fit in with the ethics of some people and has many many other problems we could and should address. But factually we still have functional web search already. Its not a problem waiting to be solved with blockchain tech. So it looks like it does not solve a web search problem it solves a niche problem for cyper…

Spot on. Well, let's take this part by part. What problems exist with the current search:

1) It is centralized

2) Your data is being used without your approval

3) Companies like Cambridge Analytica build on the semantics field and use it for economics, politics and other purposes. The fact that a semantics field is closed, leads to magnitudes of problems in almost all the fields of your life

4) You cannot search for anything freely. The internet was originally intended for the search of scientific papers, today this is not available. You might say. Hey, i don't nee it. Then its a bit hard to argue. You might not. But the reality is that its the most valuable database we have as humans, our knowledge, which is today projected not by scientific research, but by Wikipedia (owned by alphabet) and by companies like Cambridge Analytica, who build on the semantical field

5) Results aren't provable. At all. There is no proof for any root results - blockchain solves this

6) There are no incentives

7) Knowledge graphs are owed to 90% by one company, which means that the answers you're searching for. The knowledge you're acquiring today is 90% follows a black-box principle and has in it what you are lead to believe etc, etc, etc.

TBH, there are about 100 reasons why search should be changed and is crazy underlooked by a lot of people as a problem

This is the very tip of the iceberg. And Im glad you bring this up

Re: Ask HN: Are there any substantial examples of blockchain solving a real problem?

#172

Post by noxer »

nevermindme80 wrote: post #171
noxer wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What problem does it actually solve? We already have web search it may not be perfect and certainly does not fit in with the ethics of some people and has many many other problems we could and should address. But factually we still have functional web search already. Its not a problem waiting to be solved with blockchain tech. So it looks like it does not solve a web search problem it solves a niche problem for cyper…

Spot on. Well, let's take this part by part. What problems exist with the current search: 1) It is centralized 2) Your data is being used without your approval 3) Companies like Cambridge Analytica build on the semantics field and use it for economics, politics and other purposes. The fact that a semantics field is closed, leads to magnitudes of problems in almost all the fields of your life 4) You cannot search for…

1) Arguably it is centrally controlled but technically its not centralized there is no SPOF. So the kind of centralization you refer too may be unwanted for valid reasons but does not affect its function.

2) That's not an inherent property of web search at all. Its the business model of some web search provider.

3) All true but again has nothing to do with web search. The whole privacy things in general is a problem of web monetization anyway. Private data is collected for ads not for search results. web search is not broken, web monetization probably is.

4) I can search the internet freely. I may not find what I'm looking for because there are laws preventing people from putting stuff on the net and in general webhosters are usually privately owned and can decide to not allow certain things. So if you can't find X its probably because X is not on the net or its intentional hidden because its somehow illegal or just generally unwanted or there is simply no one somehow motivated to host it. The internet is kinda backward if you want to insert something you have to play for that while if you take something is usually "free". So for something to be put online there must be a some kind of motivation else simply no one will do it. This is not a flaw in web search at all. What the internet originally was intended to do seems to be irrelevant. The internet we have now is what we deal with and if enough people want to make a scientific paper library, well then they can build that perfectly fine on the internet we have today. But like I said there must be some kind of motivation. but you can't blame the lack there off to Wikipedia or it's owners and certainly not to web search.

5) Web search is not querying a database where you get 3 results if there are 3 matching entities. Everyone can implement web search the way they want it and think its the most useful. There is nothing to prov. If I search for "1999" I would expect a search engine to give me stuff mostly related to the year 1999. But 1999 is also a prime number. The name of a bunch of albums, tracks, movies and what not. Is the search result now bad because it mostly assumed a year? Its good for me as it did what I expected but may be bad for someone else.

6) Money is the incentives for web search. Obviously that is far from perfect and has a bunch of known flaws but again has nothing to do with web search. Also decentralization/blockchain etc. can not remove the incentive money from the system.

7) That sounds little bit too much conspiracy-theories-like for me. True knowledge over a specific topic is the same regardless of where you got it from.

I already agreed to that in my first reply. There is bunch of stuff concerning with today's popular web search services. But its function not broken and I don't see why it would need to be replaced. If a wheel rolls but sometimes breaks we should address that maybe change the material? maybe put some rubber on it? But not re-invent the wheel.

Re: Ask HN: Are there any substantial examples of blockchain solving a real problem?

#173

Post by nevermindme80 »

noxer wrote: post #172
nevermindme80 wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Spot on. Well, let's take this part by part. What problems exist with the current search: 1) It is centralized 2) Your data is being used without your approval 3) Companies like Cambridge Analytica build on the semantics field and use it for economics, politics and other purposes. The fact that a semantics field is closed, leads to magnitudes of problems in almost all the fields of your life 4) You cannot search for…

1) Arguably it is centrally controlled but technically its not centralized there is no SPOF. So the kind of centralization you refer too may be unwanted for valid reasons but does not affect its function. 2) That's not an inherent property of web search at all. Its the business model of some web search provider. 3) All true but again has nothing to do with web search. The whole privacy things in general is a problem…

1) Of course, there are SPoF =) One is called google =)

2) Not exactly, it's the follow up of a closed semantics field and the client-server model. The internet can be very different. As it was intended to be

3) Again, we are talking about the semantics field. Web search doesn't work, as in barely

4) No, you cannot. You are searching through blackbox intermediaries. Always. Its called a knowledge graph. Moreover, you cant search for nearly 80% of the things. I don't need an ISP telling me what I can or cannot search. Currently, according to freedom house, ~24% of the internet is free. Why should I care about censorship of ISP's? For all I know (minor in history) censorship killed more people than all of the liberals put together. An example, holocaust or let's get closer to today's reality. COVID and whats happening in counties like China, Russia, etc

5) what it doesn't do now, doesn't mean it shouldn't do. The whole idea is that I want to know that what I searched for can be provable and relevant. With the current page rank its impossible. That has to be changed

6) No, it doesn't and it shouldn't! It allows you to change the flow of monetization and empower a non-zero sum game + let eCommerce flourish fairly

7) I wish it was. But this is just the reality

There is no need to reinvent the wheel. People search for questions, in which, it should be noted, there are no bad intentions. People get answers. It's as simple as eating a cake =) What has to be changed is several things: - Location-based addressing has to go (thanks ipfs, dat, swarm, git, and any blockchain or tangle like protocol) - blackbox opinions - data loss and re-selling - one at a time ISP architecture - censorship - the understanding of how we use the internet as client-server - the number of beneficiaries has to grow, drastically

Re: Ask HN: Are there any substantial examples of blockchain solving a real problem?

#174

Post by Trias11 »

joosters wrote: post #22

Many people solved their lack of money problems through launching blockchain-related companies. The actual systems they launched can't be considered substantial, functional, or often even real, but the (actual) money that poured into their own bank accounts was substantial enough. Does that count?

I think OP's context on the question is which real world problems for other people were solved with blockchain better than with other means.

Parting suckers with their hard earned money is not likely count.

Re: Ask HN: Are there any substantial examples of blockchain solving a real problem?

#175

Post by realtalk_sp »

me_me_me wrote: post #170
realtalk_sp wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

'Here's how criminals use Bitcoin to launder dirty money' ( https://thenextweb.com/hardfork/2018/11/26/bitcoin-money-lau... ) 'Bitcoin Money Laundering: How Criminals Use Crypto' ( https://www.elliptic.co/our-thinking/bitcoin-money-launderin... ) 'Bitcoin Has Lost Steam. But Criminals Still Love It.' ( https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/28/technology/bitcoin-black-... )

Bitcoing tumblers are obfuscation method and are definitely not preventing you from tracing money. Its a way of making it harder to trace all the money. Also its public which tumbler was used for laundering so it can become target for law enforcement too. It sounds like you feel really strongly about the subject and don't like crypto at all but I think you are being unfair here.

So the solution is to make currency flows centralized, traceable, and subject to government regulation? Fascinating...

Re: Ask HN: Are there any substantial examples of blockchain solving a real problem?

#176

Post by me_me_me »

realtalk_sp wrote: post #175
me_me_me wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bitcoing tumblers are obfuscation method and are definitely not preventing you from tracing money. Its a way of making it harder to trace all the money. Also its public which tumbler was used for laundering so it can become target for law enforcement too. It sounds like you feel really strongly about the subject and don't like crypto at all but I think you are being unfair here.

So the solution is to make currency flows centralized, traceable, and subject to government regulation? Fascinating...

I would take a notch down from intellectual superiority.

I have never claimed cryptocurrency to be better solution than fiat money.

I am simply pointing out that false claims and perceptions that are often being spread.

There is a lot issues with bitcoin but that doesn't make fiat somehow flawless solution.

And just be be precise...

The idea behind bitcoin is not to directly controlled by government. That is exactly what government can't do with bitcoin and what they are doing now - print money like crazy in a hope that ceos of multinationals somehow fix current crisis.

Government and law is absolutely required to go after criminal elements. You cant solve crime with blockchain.

Re: Ask HN: Are there any substantial examples of blockchain solving a real problem?

#177

Post by jones1618 »

louwrentius wrote: post #143
alanfalcon wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Scarcity meaning that if person A owns it, person B/C/D etc. cannot, because (in this example) there is only one. Most digital files are infinitely copyable, and there aren't good DRM solutions for managing this conundrum that actually give real ownership rights to the owner... until blockchain. Why is this a problem? Ask a creative content creator. How is blockchain solving this in practice? One example: https://www…

I'm sorry, this doesn't make sense to me. If I buy an image, no block chain is going to stop me from making copies. I see no explanation on how this would work.

It's not explained well but this allows you to own the "original" photo/painting/document, etc. in a provable way. An artist could offer a limited edition digital "print" and you could collect it, exhibit it and resell it because your ownership is certifiably authentic.

If you don't think that's valuable, consider the value that humans put on first edition books, signed original works, ownership of exclusive editions, etc. Everyone can own a copy of "To Kill a Mockingbird" or "Dune" for a few dollars but signed, first editions goes for thousands of dollars.

Re: Ask HN: Are there any substantial examples of blockchain solving a real problem?

#179

Post by louwrentius »

jones1618 wrote: post #178

Forbes - 30+ Examples of Blockchain in Practice https://www.forbes.com/sites/bernardmarr/2018/05/14/30-real-... The biggest use "in the wild" right now is in multi-party smart contracts where no one party is an authority of trust.

I'll take a look but in what real life situation would that be a thing?

My mind just melts reading that page. None of those things seem to really solve a 'real' problem to me.

Re: Ask HN: Are there any substantial examples of blockchain solving a real problem?

#180

Post by louwrentius »

JackFr wrote: post #54

41 comments when I write this. There is a ton of ‘will’, ‘could’, ‘might’, but no ‘is’. The concrete examples pointed to are sales pitches, announcements, protocols, consortia being organized. It looks a lot like the answer is no. That may change I suppose, but it really seems like no one is doing anything practically useful with it.

Yes, you've observed what I frankly suspected...
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