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Ask HN: Are there any substantial examples of blockchain solving a real problem?

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Re: Ask HN: Are there any substantial examples of blockchain solving a real problem?

#151

Blockchain has existed as a widespread technology for what, a little over a decade now? And people are already proclaiming its fundamental uselessness? Seems like a massive lack of patience and long term thinking. It took nearly a century for the first airplane to go anywhere and another half-century for it to be widespread and practical.

A century after the first airplane was 2003.

Air power was already militarily important by 1916.

You might better have cited the laser, which took three decades to find heavy use, or microwave technology, worked out around 1890 but not used much until the 1940s.

Re: Ask HN: Are there any substantial examples of blockchain solving a real problem?

#152
post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It didn't take us 10+ years to find a useful purpose for smartphones or the internet. It took decades before the internet and mobile phones had any significant market penetration, and then within the space of a few years there are fewer people without it than with it. Technology adoption typically follows a Gompertz function: initially slow, but then rapid adoption before declining as there's no larger audience to…

The internet and smartphones were popular and we understood the applications. The tech was not good enough to make the visions come true. With blockchain it’s reversed: we have suddenly tech but after 11 years still no idea other than use it to sell drugs, and boil the oceans.

> The internet and smartphones were popular and we understood the applications.

Who is "we?"

A small group understood the applications early on and was way ahead of the curve. Obviously costs coming down in the 90s enabled a wider audience to access the technologies - but most were clueless of its potential until they were already using it.

This is the case for Bitcoin now. Selling drugs has little to do with it, other than demonstrating the future role of the State meddling in people's personal finance. Bitcoin is about sovereign control of one's own property - a way of saving money which cannot be unjustly taxed. All other applications of the technology will emerge from the fact that it's better money for anybody who actually has any.

Are you just another Krugman, who still didn't realize the internet's potential in 1998?

> “The growth of the Internet will slow drastically, as the flaw in ‘Metcalfe’s law’ becomes apparent: most people have nothing to say to each other! By 2005, it will become clear that the Internet’s impact on the economy has been no greater than the fax machine’s”

Oh, and "cryptocurrencies" are like the Intranets of the 90s. Everyone wants their own, for now, until they realize that being part of the global digital money network has far more advantages than trying to work with walled gardens.

Re: Ask HN: Are there any substantial examples of blockchain solving a real problem?

#153
post #17

Bitcoin solves a real problem: It creates a permanent fix for monetary inflation, which allows people to save money without being taxed on their savings. The rest of "cryptocurrency" is snake oil. Most of it attempts to reintroduce inflation and undermine the fix which Bitcoin introduced. While they may come up with a bunch of reasons for their decision to mint new tokens - the sole purpose of the new inflation is to…

Bitcoin is imho a terrible solution because it’s unstable / volatile and it’s totally a ponzi scheme + piramid scheme. I want my money to be backed up by a government that wants to keep society stable. Sad to see that bc is always so tied to distrust of governments. That way of thinking seems so naive.

Bitcoin isn't "unstable". It's very stable, as money is released on a very predictable and predetermined schedule. You know precisely how much inflation is going to occur and when it will end.

The only "volatile" is the exchange rate market of Bitcoin to USD. Obviously, this is going to be volatile for some time because demand varies from day to day. What's obvious, however, is that the trend in demand is continuing to increase over time. If you look at purchasing Bitcoin to hold for 4 years or more (or indefinitely), then you aren't concerned about the day to day fluctuations in the exchange rate.

If you purchased Bitcoin at any time in the past 10 years, and held onto it for 4 years, there is no point at which you could've made a loss. In fact, on average, you would've almost doubled your money if you converted it back to USD after 4 years.

They say past performance is no indication of success, but next month we enter another "quantitive hardening" period in Bitcoin, where the new supply released over the next 4 years is half of the supply released over the previous 4 years. If the rate of growth in demand stays the same, the exchange rate will continue to rise - but that itself causes an increase in demand because more people want to hold onto an appreciating asset rather than a depreciating dollar. Especially true given that the Fed has committed to rapidly devaluing the dollar this year in a struggle to deal with COVID-19.

Bitcoin doesn't care about the virus. There's nobody to bail out bitcoiners. The State is the virus, and Bitcoin is the remedy.

Re: Ask HN: Are there any substantial examples of blockchain solving a real problem?

#154

Paying bribes to government officials. Large transactions for illegal goods such as drugs. Transferring money out of controlled currencies. This isn’t meant to be a joke. I’m illustrating that the price of cryptocurrency is indeed backed by some of its utility and not 100% a money making scheme.

Dollar is by far biggest offender is all of those categories, but bitcoin is the currency of evil, eh...

Re: Ask HN: Are there any substantial examples of blockchain solving a real problem?

#155
Disclaimer: I am affiliated with the project I am describing below.

You have a stab at one of the most important issues within the space here. You are right, most projects either do not have any utility or they are so far up their idea and tech that they think it will produce value by itself. Unfortunately, most things end here. For most, this value will never surpass the simple value of "exchanging value" or "storing value" (both are important I agree, but we are talking about tech, not money).

However, that is not how it should be. Projects should be building and solving issues, adding utility and providing solutions, otherwise, we are stuck in a system which produces the point zero problem. This can get us cemented in the past with no hope of any future.

Check out cyber. It is a decentralized google with a mission to open the semantics field and decentralize the service of the internet with the use of blockchain and economic incentives.

It's not an idea. Both, the chain and the initial app are working as planned. Yes, the project is still in testnets, but, it is 100% open-source and the idea is provably implemented.

Cyber managed to prove that it can change the current search mechanism and make it work. The main use of the network is to build an open, decentralized knowledge graph, by the users themselves to create a shared database of knowledge. All transactions in the network are made to target that purpose in one way or another.

Cyber utilizes the use of computation, bandwidth and storage and produces a useful computer with several use-cases, with the most obvious is the creation of an open and provable search in a trustless and censorship-free environment without the illnesses of web2 tech..

Re: Ask HN: Are there any substantial examples of blockchain solving a real problem?

#156

Here’s some examples of things that blockchains can/do help with: - Currencies that cannot be manipulated/controlled by a government / external forces (plenty of examples why that’s a real problem in history, including runaway inflationary policies, payments restricted from certain individuals eg sex workers) - Cheap accounting (see digital autonomous companies), you can run a company with lower costs by programmatic…

I was not interested in hypotheticals, I want actual substantial evidence that it solves anything practical now, after 11 years.

These are all things that are implemented now...

Re: Ask HN: Are there any substantial examples of blockchain solving a real problem?

#157
post #54

41 comments when I write this. There is a ton of ‘will’, ‘could’, ‘might’, but no ‘is’. The concrete examples pointed to are sales pitches, announcements, protocols, consortia being organized. It looks a lot like the answer is no. That may change I suppose, but it really seems like no one is doing anything practically useful with it.

It's hard for people to simply skip this thread if they can't answer the question. Hence we have now 144 comments and beside my own post I could not find anyone actually answering the question.

Re: Ask HN: Are there any substantial examples of blockchain solving a real problem?

#158

Disclaimer: I am affiliated with the project I am describing below. You have a stab at one of the most important issues within the space here. You are right, most projects either do not have any utility or they are so far up their idea and tech that they think it will produce value by itself. Unfortunately, most things end here. For most, this value will never surpass the simple value of "exchanging value" or "storin…

What problem does it actually solve? We already have web search it may not be perfect and certainly does not fit in with the ethics of some people and has many many other problems we could and should address. But factually we still have functional web search already. Its not a problem waiting to be solved with blockchain tech. So it looks like it does not solve a web search problem it solves a niche problem for cyperliberalism or something while the real world does not have a search problem.

Don't get me wrong. the Project might be awesome. I may even use it some day. But I see it a niche project like I2P or Freenet, It's good that we have these for when we might need it but there is no way people will replace something they use now with it.

Re: Ask HN: Are there any substantial examples of blockchain solving a real problem?

#159

The Telecom Regulatory Authority of India (TRAI) has used blockchain based solution to curb spam calls and messages. (Slightly old link here: https://www.livemint.com/Industry/RRuPzidooMxh8pspZhTlrI/Tra... ) India has a huge problem with spam calls and messages (not so much in times of Corona, work from home, and lockdown) and how the phone numbers of users are obtained. There are lists of emails and phone numbers th…

Seems like any Database could be used for this. If there is a central authority its almost certain no blockchain tech is needed at all. A central authority does not disabled swarm intelligence or something. It does not have to use its power against all others. Centrality ruled systems work very very fine as long as the central authority has the same goal as the other parties. If there is a central operator for anti spam call database and they do their job correctly there is no reason to not trust them and replace them with complex distributed agreement mechanisms. especially not if they in the end are in control of "the blockchain" anyway.

Re: Ask HN: Are there any substantial examples of blockchain solving a real problem?

#160

Blockchain has existed as a widespread technology for what, a little over a decade now? And people are already proclaiming its fundamental uselessness? Seems like a massive lack of patience and long term thinking. It took nearly a century for the first airplane to go anywhere and another half-century for it to be widespread and practical.

Given the amount of hype and money dumped into projects, and nothing more coming out of it more than crypto-currency which already existed and started the trend.. i'd say 10 years is more than generous.

I think blockchain is mismatched with how society operates. With blockchains math is king. If your keys are compromised your screwed. There is no appeal court. You’ve lost your money, domain name or reputation or whatever you had secured on it. That’s not great for a lot of applications. Also it’s just slower and more resource intensive that other data stores. Ever tried to sync the Ethereum blockchain? I couldn’t get it to happen. So there is no clear advantage to using a blockchain.

That said there might be a lot of fun geeky “uses” like creating smart contracts that you share about and use. But the practical problem is the transaction and conversion costs and currency fluctuations make it hard to take that from fun to useful for business.

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