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Facebook says it has removed promotion of anti-quarantine events

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Re: Facebook says it has removed promotion of anti-quarantine events

#561

Post by lazyasciiart »

megavolcano wrote: post #548
lazyasciiart wrote: post #277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you reconcile this argument with the hospitals being full and morgues overrun? Do you think that happens every flu season?

Not all hospitals and morgues are overrun, a lot of them are actually massively under capacity. The media hysterics about this is complete nonsense for the majority of hospitals. NYC is not the US. Hell, NYC is not New York STATE.

How many hospitals or morgues should be overrun before it becomes evidence that we are not dealing with the same kind of problem as we do every flu season?

Re: Facebook says it has removed promotion of anti-quarantine events

#562

Post by perl4ever »

gorgoiler wrote: post #300
perl4ever wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"every bag of groceries is going to be covered in COVID" Just as a random factoid, somewhere I was just reading that someone was doing testing of surfaces in a hospital, and on average they found maybe 80% contaminated with the virus, but the floor of the pharmacy was 100% even though no patients had been in there...

Asking in good faith (I believe you!) if you could dig out your source, I would find that interesting to read as well.

"as medical staff walk around the ward, the virus can be tracked all over the floor, as indicated by the 100% rate of positivity from the floor in the pharmacy, where there were no patients. Furthermore, half of the samples from the soles of the ICU medical staff shoes tested positive"

Other objects were not as high as I recalled, but computer mice in the ICU were 75%.

https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/26/7/20-0885_article

Also see table: https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/26/7/20-0885-t1

Re: Facebook says it has removed promotion of anti-quarantine events

#563

Post by vkou »

jakearmitage wrote: post #495
chimprich wrote: post #437

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my country we don't just let people drive however they like on public roads. You have to be above a certain age, have passed a test, not be drunk or stoned, be driving a roadworthy vehicle, and follow many other rules. Your risk to other people's lives is carefully managed.

And still, drunk driving kills more than 10k every year in the US only: https://www.nhtsa.gov/risky-driving/drunk-driving I should definitely quarantine me and my family after before 6 AM and after 6 PM.

It would kill a lot more people if the roads were a consequence-free free-for-all with no speed limits, highway enforcement, safety or licensing requirements.

Re: Facebook says it has removed promotion of anti-quarantine events

#564

Post by TopHand »

markbnj wrote: post #521
TopHand wrote: post #451

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your right, we should ignore statistical evidence and go with your wife's anecdotal evidence. Your also right about letting the experts run our lives. After all they know far more about how the world works than we could ever know and we should just buckle down and do the menial tasks we're good at and let the experts take care of us.

>> Your right, we should ignore statistical evidence and go with your wife's anecdotal evidence. I didn't offer anecdotal "evidence" of anything. I told a story from a professional who is on the front lines of this fight to illustrate that the numbers of people who die don't make it clear where the pressures on the medical system come from. They come from people needing care, whether or not they die. In fact whether…

From wikipedia- anecdotal evidence is evidence collected in a casual or informal manner and relying heavily or entirely on personal testimony. The third paragraph presents as if you are trying to dispute the statistical evidence that has been accumulated with anecdotal or personal testimony.

Re: Facebook says it has removed promotion of anti-quarantine events

#565

Post by TopHand »

ugexe wrote: post #453
TopHand wrote: post #451

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your right, we should ignore statistical evidence and go with your wife's anecdotal evidence. Your also right about letting the experts run our lives. After all they know far more about how the world works than we could ever know and we should just buckle down and do the menial tasks we're good at and let the experts take care of us.

What non-menial task has this situation stolen from you that is also more important than solving the current medical crisis?

Two months ago we were being told the most important problem that needed immediate resolution was planetary climate change. We needed to rely on experts for that one too. It also didn't matter what costs the industrial world would have to pay. It needed resolution. Actually if climate change is the problem the experts claim it is, I would put that one above the current medical crisis. It effects all life on the planet, not just a certain subset of mammals. In six months the crisis du jour will be the economy. Of course the experts will be sure to tell us how we must change our lives to survive that. After that we'll have an environmental crisis because 3 to 4 billion starving humans will wreck havoc on the Eco-systems they live in.

Re: Facebook says it has removed promotion of anti-quarantine events

#566

Post by jariel »

ntsplnkv2 wrote: post #488
thu2111 wrote: post #411

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yet? Recall that the outbreak started in central Europe weeks before the USA locked down. Even in the harder hit countries, there are quiet hospitals almost everywhere. Look at Switzerland - it shares a huge land border with northern Italy and has large numbers of people who move across the borders, it volunteered to take Italian patients in. Swiss hospitals are receiving financial bailouts because they're so quiet,…

> There's no evidence lawmakers have any better insight into what's going on than anyone else, and quite a bit of evidence they may have worse insight. Yes, I'm sure dark money funded protestors who blocked ambulances from going to hospitals have better insight than anyone else. What a load of nonsense. Facebook is a private platform. It can moderate how it pleases.

"Facebook is a private platform. It can moderate how it pleases."

Absolutely not; it is highly regulated (probably should be more so), subject to constitutional concerns, ongoing legislation and pressures.

Re: Facebook says it has removed promotion of anti-quarantine events

#567

Post by AnimalMuppet »

jariel wrote: post #566
ntsplnkv2 wrote: post #488

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There's no evidence lawmakers have any better insight into what's going on than anyone else, and quite a bit of evidence they may have worse insight. Yes, I'm sure dark money funded protestors who blocked ambulances from going to hospitals have better insight than anyone else. What a load of nonsense. Facebook is a private platform. It can moderate how it pleases.

"Facebook is a private platform. It can moderate how it pleases." Absolutely not; it is highly regulated (probably should be more so), subject to constitutional concerns, ongoing legislation and pressures.

Maybe so. But protecting the 1st Amendment rights of its users is not one of those "constitutional concerns".

Re: Facebook says it has removed promotion of anti-quarantine events

#568

Post by daxorid »

kofejnik wrote: post #417
pbourke wrote: post #397

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I’d assume most people, particularly landlords and local government would want to avoid that. This seems like a “prisoner’s dilemma” situation. It’s rational for an individual landlord to evict a delinquent tenant and seek a new one. However, if everyone does this the entire market collapses. It’s better for everyone if the landlord takes a short term haircut to preserve the market. Since cooperation is expected to…

... or maybe this "landlord" is a parent who just rents out their old small house, and is now unable to make the rent or car payments

Then they do what everyone else does. Sell the asset and cut back on expenses.

Capital owners are not a special class of citizen. If you have assets and need cash, there is a way to convert one to the other. It's called a "market". You may have heard of it.

It seems that during recessions, asset-rich/cash-poor people, nominally Capitalists, turn into overnight socialists because making cuts to the ol' lifestyle is for the little people, not them.

Re: Facebook says it has removed promotion of anti-quarantine events

#569

Post by BurningFrog »

52-6F-62 wrote: post #507
BurningFrog wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But given a choice between being alive and being jobless, Read literally, this says everyone who returns to work will die. For the future, I recommend more nuance in your writing. Losing your livelihood does carry a substantial risk of increased death.

Is that so universally true? I'm thankful right now that I live in Canada where every week—sometimes multiple times a week—measures are added or adjusted in order to prevent anyone from falling through the cracks. Some businesses have faltered or are closing permanently, but many others are receiving substantial support. We're currently beating the projections in Ontario, and while this is not an easy time, every act…

Sure, if the government replaces your livelihood, it becomes much less of an issue.

Of course, such measures can only work for a while until things start breaking down. We can do without barbers for quite a while, but the more professions are offline, the worse the accumulated effect is.

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