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Facebook says it has removed promotion of anti-quarantine events

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Re: Facebook says it has removed promotion of anti-quarantine events

#131

Post by nostromo »

bargl wrote: post #87
downerending wrote: post #24

It's worth noting that there is a lot of discussion in serious circles (including here on HN) about the balance between too much and not enough with respect to quarantine, lockdown, etc., both in terms of where we are now and what we should do in the near future. I see little reason to doubt that all involved are trying to minimize general death and misery, even if they may disagree radically about how to do that. It…

We tend to want to lump people into camps so we don't have to go through and see all the various sub-categories and determine if they are OK or not. Some states are restricting fishing and hunting... That's not a team sport and if I use a lure (edit: as in I don't even have to go to the store for bait) I'm not going to affect anyone else. Some protesters want to get haircuts.... GET OVER IT. I feel like both sides ha…

> Some protesters want to get haircuts.... GET OVER IT.

People feed themselves and provide their family's healthcare by providing haircuts.

Everything is essential to someone. I wouldn't be so dismissive.

Re: Facebook says it has removed promotion of anti-quarantine events

#132

Post by rm_-rf_slash »

dimal wrote: post #109

I disagree with all these reopen protests, but I wonder if suppressing them will have the desired effect. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Streisand_effect This action will "prove" to some people that the tech industry has a liberal bias. I don't know that there's a good counter action to these protests, though.

The propaganda* play for the American right these days is to be absolutely shameless, so any action to circumvent or suppress the protests will inevitably be blown up as the last straw obliterating America-as-we-know-it now and forevermore. In this light, the reaction to the reaction of the protests should be disregarded as a matter of government and corporate policy, because the organizers of the protests are acting in bad faith to simply discredit democratically elected Democratic governorships.

*Propaganda is not meant to be used as a derogatory term in this context; it is a tool, like a gun that can shoot deer for food or humans for conquest.

Re: Facebook says it has removed promotion of anti-quarantine events

#133

Post by CryptoPunk »

SerLava wrote: post #110
oldsklgdfth wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Huh, that sounds reasonable. I'm guessing you would need to wait for immunization to be developed for restrictions on high risk people are loosened?

It's not reasonable. You can't quarantine vulnerable people completely. If everyone gets it, every bag of groceries is going to be covered in COVID and an enormous number of quarantined people will die. You can't tell who's going to die from it. You can't have everyone getting sick at once. The death rate will go up tremendously if nobody can get treatment when they have treatable symptoms. This is what "flattening t…

>>You can't quarantine vulnerable people completely. If everyone gets it, every bag of groceries is going to be covered in COVID and an enormous number of quarantined people will die

Yes you absolutely can. The workers interacting with the quarantined subset of the population could use PPE to avoid transmitting it to them. Packaging on groceries, as well as the grocery bag, can easily be disinfected before being transferred to the quarantined individual.

Re: Facebook says it has removed promotion of anti-quarantine events

#134

Post by phakding »

pacala wrote: post #115
phakding wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see the link here. Yes there are 22 million laid off. But given a choice between being alive and being jobless, I think people would choose being jobless. The people protesting are not the same people lining up at food banks. I have seen wapo video of Michigan protest. People there were angry because they want to get their hair done or buy paint and fertilizer. They want others to go to work to they can stay…

The disease does not affect age groups equally. From what I've seen, most victims are in the 60+ age groups. From NYC fatality report [0]: 0-9: 1 0% 10-19: 6 0.1% 20-29: 56 0.4% 30-39: 227 1.6% 40-49: 535 3.7% 50-59: 1410 9.8% 60-69: 2863 20.0% 70-79: 3811 26.6% 80-89: 1753 25.4% 90+: 12.2% Think of people having a "vitality score" that decreases with age, and of disease as a stressor that kills people with the "vita…

So you are okay with 16 out of every 1000, 30-39 year old person with a family and young kids who are otherwise healthy, die just so you could go out to eat in your favorite restaurant?

You are willing to sacrifice them for your benefit. How altruistic of you!

Re: Facebook says it has removed promotion of anti-quarantine events

#135

Post by nopriorarrests »

jfim wrote: post #125
cpwright wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Would that apply in this situation where most medical experts would agree that the quarantine is necessary for saving lives? Or is the thinking that this is too far removed — like telling people they can’t protest seat-belts." Medical experts and scientists can provide data that helps inform people. Just because medical experts say something will "save lives" does not mean we should blindly follow that as policy. Th…

> Medical experts and scientists can provide data that helps inform people. There are tons of data available. Even at a layman level, it should be pretty obvious that doing no or late lockdown ends up in situations where there are large numbers of deaths.

>it should be pretty obvious that doing no or late lockdown ends up in situations where there are large numbers of deaths.

Even this is debatable.

I have no skin in this game and no strong opinion, but let's be honest -- lots of people were expecting total disaster in Sweden since they decided not to implement lockdown, but so far their daily cases chart looks not that different from other nordic countries.

Re: Facebook says it has removed promotion of anti-quarantine events

#136

Post by nostromo »

gdubs wrote: post #73
downerending wrote: post #24

It's worth noting that there is a lot of discussion in serious circles (including here on HN) about the balance between too much and not enough with respect to quarantine, lockdown, etc., both in terms of where we are now and what we should do in the near future. I see little reason to doubt that all involved are trying to minimize general death and misery, even if they may disagree radically about how to do that. It…

I’m too tired at the moment to figure out where I stand on this [issue of free speech / assembly] but I have a general question: I thought the Supreme Court has already shown that there are limits to speech, such as yelling “Fire” in a crowded theater. I guess the distinction is how directly the speech leads to harm. Would that apply in this situation where most medical experts would agree that the quarantine is nece…

You're free to yell fire in a theater if you believe there is a fire.

By analogy, if you thought Covid-19 danger's were overblown, you are free to say so.

Re: Facebook says it has removed promotion of anti-quarantine events

#137

Post by ethbro »

nopriorarrests wrote: post #127
gdubs wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m too tired at the moment to figure out where I stand on this [issue of free speech / assembly] but I have a general question: I thought the Supreme Court has already shown that there are limits to speech, such as yelling “Fire” in a crowded theater. I guess the distinction is how directly the speech leads to harm. Would that apply in this situation where most medical experts would agree that the quarantine is nece…

>situation where most medical experts would agree that the quarantine is necessary for saving lives The same experts (like WHO) told everyone 3 month ago that masks don't work, that no clear evidence of human-to-human transmission was found, etc. If they made such obvious mistakes and we still have to obey their orders now, what's the point of having government at all? Let's just accept the rule by the experts and ge…

> If they made such obvious mistakes and we still have to obey their orders now, what's the point of having government at all?

That a human made an error doesn't mean the public is smarter than them.

Re: Facebook says it has removed promotion of anti-quarantine events

#138

Post by bargl »

mcculley wrote: post #100
bargl wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We tend to want to lump people into camps so we don't have to go through and see all the various sub-categories and determine if they are OK or not. Some states are restricting fishing and hunting... That's not a team sport and if I use a lure (edit: as in I don't even have to go to the store for bait) I'm not going to affect anyone else. Some protesters want to get haircuts.... GET OVER IT. I feel like both sides ha…

It's no surprise that a culture that didn't plan ahead or invest in public health infrastructure has haphazard and poorly defined processes.

Agreed.

I'd like to point out that some people equate "invest in public health infrastructure" with free healthcare.

The two aren't the same. To deal with a pandemic you need a pandemic response plan for the spike to the system. This can be done in even in the US under our current system. It'd just magnify the pros/cons of our any system in place.

I'm for state run healthcare, but the argument about pandemic readiness isn't about that (imo).

Re: Facebook says it has removed promotion of anti-quarantine events

#139

Post by phakding »

Press2forEN wrote: post #119
phakding wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see the link here. Yes there are 22 million laid off. But given a choice between being alive and being jobless, I think people would choose being jobless. The people protesting are not the same people lining up at food banks. I have seen wapo video of Michigan protest. People there were angry because they want to get their hair done or buy paint and fertilizer. They want others to go to work to they can stay…

The choice between being alive and being jobless is a false dichotomy.

May be for healthy, but not for the people with certain underlying conditions like diabetes, high BP, obesity etc. Also even if you are not vulnerable to the disease, you could be spreading this to the others who are even without showing symptoms.

Look at Sweden. They decided to let the people at risk stay home while others go out and about their business. Didn't work out too well for them.

Re: Facebook says it has removed promotion of anti-quarantine events

#140

Post by [deleted] »

phakding wrote: post #134
pacala wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The disease does not affect age groups equally. From what I've seen, most victims are in the 60+ age groups. From NYC fatality report [0]: 0-9: 1 0% 10-19: 6 0.1% 20-29: 56 0.4% 30-39: 227 1.6% 40-49: 535 3.7% 50-59: 1410 9.8% 60-69: 2863 20.0% 70-79: 3811 26.6% 80-89: 1753 25.4% 90+: 12.2% Think of people having a "vitality score" that decreases with age, and of disease as a stressor that kills people with the "vita…

So you are okay with 16 out of every 1000, 30-39 year old person with a family and young kids who are otherwise healthy, die just so you could go out to eat in your favorite restaurant? You are willing to sacrifice them for your benefit. How altruistic of you!

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