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Facebook says it has removed promotion of anti-quarantine events

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Re: Facebook says it has removed promotion of anti-quarantine events

#121

Post by cpwright »

phakding wrote: post #88
chrisco255 wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not astroturfing. I saw the protest in Austin this weekend. 22 million people have been laid off in the last 4 weeks. I've seen the footage of tens of thousands lining up at food banks across the country. This is just getting started.

I don't see the link here. Yes there are 22 million laid off. But given a choice between being alive and being jobless, I think people would choose being jobless. The people protesting are not the same people lining up at food banks. I have seen wapo video of Michigan protest. People there were angry because they want to get their hair done or buy paint and fertilizer. They want others to go to work to they can stay…

The "choice between being alive and being jobless" is a matter of probabilities, which people are not great at. If you are not elderly, you likely have a higher chance of being unemployed than dying of COVID-19. So the choice is not between being alive and being jobless, it is an abstract unknown person getting sick and dying vs. you personally losing your income.

Re: Facebook says it has removed promotion of anti-quarantine events

#122

Post by stri8ed »

phakding wrote: post #88
chrisco255 wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not astroturfing. I saw the protest in Austin this weekend. 22 million people have been laid off in the last 4 weeks. I've seen the footage of tens of thousands lining up at food banks across the country. This is just getting started.

I don't see the link here. Yes there are 22 million laid off. But given a choice between being alive and being jobless, I think people would choose being jobless. The people protesting are not the same people lining up at food banks. I have seen wapo video of Michigan protest. People there were angry because they want to get their hair done or buy paint and fertilizer. They want others to go to work to they can stay…

> But given a choice between being alive and being jobless

To be fair that is not the actual choice on offer. Its more like being jobless, vs accepting a certain (in some cases low) probability of dying.

Re: Facebook says it has removed promotion of anti-quarantine events

#123

Post by downerending »

vinniejames wrote: post #104
downerending wrote: post #24

It's worth noting that there is a lot of discussion in serious circles (including here on HN) about the balance between too much and not enough with respect to quarantine, lockdown, etc., both in terms of where we are now and what we should do in the near future. I see little reason to doubt that all involved are trying to minimize general death and misery, even if they may disagree radically about how to do that. It…

This would be more analogous to Google removing those types of pages from search, which they already do en masse and have for years

It seems to go a bit farther than that. IIUC, people posting about these events can have accounts suspended (not just the particular post).

Beyond that, though, presumably a lot of my friends would be interested in what I have to say. FB getting in the middle of that seems pretty heavy-handed.

(Personally, we're way past the point where I'd care to have a Facebook, Twitter, etc. account, partly for reasons like this, and I've deleted mine years ago.)

Re: Facebook says it has removed promotion of anti-quarantine events

#124

Post by downerending »

kevinventullo wrote: post #39
downerending wrote: post #24

It's worth noting that there is a lot of discussion in serious circles (including here on HN) about the balance between too much and not enough with respect to quarantine, lockdown, etc., both in terms of where we are now and what we should do in the near future. I see little reason to doubt that all involved are trying to minimize general death and misery, even if they may disagree radically about how to do that. It…

I see little reason to doubt that all involved are trying to minimize general death and misery At the risk of sounding inflammatory, there are pretty clearly some actors who would welcome death and misery upon others if it meant they made some money.

It's a quibble, but I'm stretching to think of any example of a person welcoming death and misery upon another for the purpose of monetary profit. Generally those who welcome death do it for other reasons, and those motivated by money accept or ignore others' deaths, but do not particularly welcome them.

Re: Facebook says it has removed promotion of anti-quarantine events

#125

Post by jfim »

cpwright wrote: post #114
gdubs wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m too tired at the moment to figure out where I stand on this [issue of free speech / assembly] but I have a general question: I thought the Supreme Court has already shown that there are limits to speech, such as yelling “Fire” in a crowded theater. I guess the distinction is how directly the speech leads to harm. Would that apply in this situation where most medical experts would agree that the quarantine is nece…

"Would that apply in this situation where most medical experts would agree that the quarantine is necessary for saving lives? Or is the thinking that this is too far removed — like telling people they can’t protest seat-belts." Medical experts and scientists can provide data that helps inform people. Just because medical experts say something will "save lives" does not mean we should blindly follow that as policy. Th…

> Medical experts and scientists can provide data that helps inform people.

There are tons of data available. Even at a layman level, it should be pretty obvious that doing no or late lockdown ends up in situations where there are large numbers of deaths.

Re: Facebook says it has removed promotion of anti-quarantine events

#126

Post by downerending »

aclsid wrote: post #112
wyager wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, like China using its influence over the WHO to mislead about the nature of the outbreak within its borders and exclude Taiwan from the international health community. I'm more worried about that than some powerless randos who are mad about the massive QALY loss we're currently going through.

[flagged]

> Nobody has excluded Taiwan from anything, but they are not a member state of the UN and therefore not part of the WHO.

Speaking from the cheap seats, Taiwan is obviously a sovereign country. They'd like to be in the UN. The UN apparently excludes them because of the influence of mainland China. So yes, they are excluded.

Re: Facebook says it has removed promotion of anti-quarantine events

#127

Post by nopriorarrests »

gdubs wrote: post #73
downerending wrote: post #24

It's worth noting that there is a lot of discussion in serious circles (including here on HN) about the balance between too much and not enough with respect to quarantine, lockdown, etc., both in terms of where we are now and what we should do in the near future. I see little reason to doubt that all involved are trying to minimize general death and misery, even if they may disagree radically about how to do that. It…

I’m too tired at the moment to figure out where I stand on this [issue of free speech / assembly] but I have a general question: I thought the Supreme Court has already shown that there are limits to speech, such as yelling “Fire” in a crowded theater. I guess the distinction is how directly the speech leads to harm. Would that apply in this situation where most medical experts would agree that the quarantine is nece…

>situation where most medical experts would agree that the quarantine is necessary for saving lives

The same experts (like WHO) told everyone 3 month ago that masks don't work, that no clear evidence of human-to-human transmission was found, etc. If they made such obvious mistakes and we still have to obey their orders now, what's the point of having government at all? Let's just accept the rule by the experts and get rid of elections and stuff.

Re: Facebook says it has removed promotion of anti-quarantine events

#128

Post by CryptoPunk »

wyager wrote: post #96
tomcam wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not a constitutional issue because FB, Google, etc. are private companies and can tweak the search results however they see fit.

While I don't endorse this state of affairs, the federal government has been putting constraints and obligations on private (especially commercial) speech for decades.

Only commercial speech. Private non-commercial speech has been pretty broadly protected by the First Amendment.

Re: Facebook says it has removed promotion of anti-quarantine events

#129

Post by downerending »

SerLava wrote: post #106
downerending wrote: post #24

It's worth noting that there is a lot of discussion in serious circles (including here on HN) about the balance between too much and not enough with respect to quarantine, lockdown, etc., both in terms of where we are now and what we should do in the near future. I see little reason to doubt that all involved are trying to minimize general death and misery, even if they may disagree radically about how to do that. It…

>I see little reason to doubt that all involved are trying to minimize general death and misery, even if they may disagree radically about how to do that. Wait, are you talking about the people who want to send everyone back to work now, even though we don't even have masks for doctors yet? Are you saying they are trying to minimize death and misery? Or are we talking about completely different people here?

I don't know about the particular motives of each protester. But it's obvious that there are large numbers of people facing immediate financial ruin. And very shortly thereafter, risk of death for themselves and their loved ones.

I'm not in that situation, but I wouldn't be caught dead silencing their voices.

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