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Seoul's full cafes, Apple store lines show mass testing success

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Re: Seoul's full cafes, Apple store lines show mass testing success

#291

Post by hadtodoit »

tooltalk wrote: post #248
hadtodoit wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In that case I wouldn't trust any country not to fudge the numbers. As far as Japan goes, I believe the numbers are close enough. They have a very high population of elderly and smokers. People would be dropping like flies and making a lot of noise about it if the numbers were far worse. Social distancing, wearing masks, staying home when sick, cleaning all fomites frequently are things the Japanese were doing before…

Japan had been under-testing and under-reporting to save their face -- or the Olympics. As recent as last week, their health official confessed they had a testing capacity for only 200 per day in Tokyo. Japan's case number and death started skyrocketing since the Olympics postponement on March 24 and nobody thinks it's just a coincidence. Also note Japan has a large elderly population, or about 32+K, who die unnotice…

Japan was certainly trying to save the Olympics but when it became clear nobody would attend, numbers "skyrocketed" the same way US numbers did, ie. we started actually testing people and confirming what everyone else already knew, that this thing spread like wildfire.

Testing isn't even useful at this point, we should operate under the assumption everyone has or will have it, and just treat those who are having complications. You don't need to get tested to know you have a cold, just deal with it.

Re: Seoul's full cafes, Apple store lines show mass testing success

#292

Post by RobAtticus »

lurquer wrote: post #289
RobAtticus wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Kind of - it closed the borders for Europeans traveling to the US, but did little to manage Americans returning from abroad. Given March is winter in the US (thus less tourism), I would imagine the majority of Europe -> US traffic at the time is Americans returning home, that's a rather weak closure.

>I would imagine the majority of Europe -> US traffic at the time is Americans returning home, that's a rather weak closure. Over 10 million a year from Germany, Italy, Spain, France, and UK alone. Just tourist visas. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tourism_in_the_United_States#V...

>at the time

My point was that tourism to the US is probably not uniform throughout the year, and March is likely on the lower end of tourism. Hence the ratio of traffic being Americans returning home is higher.

Re: Seoul's full cafes, Apple store lines show mass testing success

#293

Post by James_Henry »

greedo wrote: post #239
James_Henry wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also, they are very meticulous about taking their shoes off before going into a home and about keeping their floors clean. Which may be more important, especially in dense locations, than we might be realizing. A Chinese study found that the virus was probably being moved around by people's shoes https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/26/7/20-0885_article

They tested in hospital/ICU areas. I think the odds are much higher in such an environment. Obviously medical workers should keep from transferring viral material to their homes, but to imply that this is being transferred by non-medical personnel is inaccurate.

Definitely there is more of the virus in hospitals and in the ICU. The virus is also probably on the floors of subway cars, elevators, and other public places if someone infected emits droplets in those areas.

Of course, I'm only suggesting that the idea of shoes as vectors might be something.

Re: Seoul's full cafes, Apple store lines show mass testing success

#294

Post by James_Henry »

BubRoss wrote: post #81
James_Henry wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also, they are very meticulous about taking their shoes off before going into a home and about keeping their floors clean. Which may be more important, especially in dense locations, than we might be realizing. A Chinese study found that the virus was probably being moved around by people's shoes https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/26/7/20-0885_article

That says they detected it on floors in hospitals. Does it talk about it being on shoes, entering homes and ultimately infecting people?

No, there's evidence of it on half of the soles of ICU workers' shoes, and they found the virus on the floor of areas where patients were not found. From this they proposed that within the hospital, shoes could be a vector and highly recommend that people disinfect shoe souls before walking out of wards with Covid-19 patients.

There are not any reported cases of the virus infecting anyone by shoe though.

Re: Seoul's full cafes, Apple store lines show mass testing success

#295

Post by stunt »

WillPostForFood wrote: post #54
dominotw wrote: post #45

how was south korea able to scale up their testing so fast. Where did the extra testing capacity come from. I've been really curious about this but haven't seen any good answers so far.

It is am extremely stark example of the value of maintaining manufacturing capacity in your country. Korea can makes tests, so they have tests. Seegene, a company that makes Covid-19 testing equipment is in Korea. They just needed approval and to ramp up manufacturing. For most countries, like the US, we don't have the manufacturing ability anymore, so we have to go beg and buy tests while we figure how to make again…

Not so long ago, East Asia was hit by another epidemic virus. So they are better prepared than many other countries. They have reserved workforce, researchers, and labs to deal with it in South Korea. Therefore, they were able to mass produce fast test kits so quickly.

The population is also better prepared for this situation. They still remember it and know they have to follow all the advice coming from government and health experts.

Even before the spread of Covid-19 outside China, all East Asians started to use face masks. I'm not saying mask helped them, I mean that just shows how their society still remembers the last time that they were hit by a virus.

Re: Seoul's full cafes, Apple store lines show mass testing success

#296

Post by tooltalk »

hadtodoit wrote: post #291
tooltalk wrote: post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Japan had been under-testing and under-reporting to save their face -- or the Olympics. As recent as last week, their health official confessed they had a testing capacity for only 200 per day in Tokyo. Japan's case number and death started skyrocketing since the Olympics postponement on March 24 and nobody thinks it's just a coincidence. Also note Japan has a large elderly population, or about 32+K, who die unnotice…

Japan was certainly trying to save the Olympics but when it became clear nobody would attend, numbers "skyrocketed" the same way US numbers did, ie. we started actually testing people and confirming what everyone else already knew, that this thing spread like wildfire. Testing isn't even useful at this point, we should operate under the assumption everyone has or will have it, and just treat those who are having comp…

Sure, which is to say, Japan intentionally deceived the world -- they under-tested and under-reported their case numbers to project a false perception of safety and control before the Olympics.

Re: Seoul's full cafes, Apple store lines show mass testing success

#297

Post by hadtodoit »

tooltalk wrote: post #296
hadtodoit wrote: post #291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Japan was certainly trying to save the Olympics but when it became clear nobody would attend, numbers "skyrocketed" the same way US numbers did, ie. we started actually testing people and confirming what everyone else already knew, that this thing spread like wildfire. Testing isn't even useful at this point, we should operate under the assumption everyone has or will have it, and just treat those who are having comp…

Sure, which is to say, Japan intentionally deceived the world -- they under-tested and under-reported their case numbers to project a false perception of safety and control before the Olympics.

We didn't even have FDA approved test kits until last month, I imagine that similar agencies exist in Japan which required government intervention to expedite the process. I know you want to believe they had nefarious intentions but bureaucracy and incompetence are often the culprit when it comes to government.

In the US it wasn't just a matter of getting tests made, but getting all the various states and private testing centers connected so the federal government could aggregate the data. Smaller countries or those with socialized/public healthcare had an easier time at this because their systems were already unified. Tiny countries like South Korea trying to talk down the US for not getting tests out as fast is them is humorous. California alone has greater landmass and 80% of SK's population.

Besides that, Japan is still doing very well despite their population density meeting/exceeding many major hotspots. And the US is likely out of the woods, we should definitely be back to normal next month.

Re: Seoul's full cafes, Apple store lines show mass testing success

#298

Post by tooltalk »

hadtodoit wrote: post #297
tooltalk wrote: post #296

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, which is to say, Japan intentionally deceived the world -- they under-tested and under-reported their case numbers to project a false perception of safety and control before the Olympics.

We didn't even have FDA approved test kits until last month, I imagine that similar agencies exist in Japan which required government intervention to expedite the process. I know you want to believe they had nefarious intentions but bureaucracy and incompetence are often the culprit when it comes to government. In the US it wasn't just a matter of getting tests made, but getting all the various states and private tes…

USA = South Korea 2015 during MERS

Japan = Olympics; willful neglect, deception

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