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X410 – X Server for Windows 10

x410.dev

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Re: X410 – X Server for Windows 10

#231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I run Windows applications that require USB hardware, and Wine does not support USB devices. so I was hoping for native Windows execution rendered to an X Server.

Run windows in a VM with USB pass through?

this is what I do. It works for a lot of USB devices, but not always.

Re: X410 – X Server for Windows 10

#232
post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I haven't used this Xserver, but I've used most (all?) of the free Xservers for Windows over time. As background Windows is my preferred desktop environment for about the last ten years[1], but I do most of my "real work" on FreeBSD or Linux; having an Xserver on windows means I can do graphical work and have it mostly work. Utilitywise, I can do things like running an image viewer to see what pictures I have in a di…

What benefits do you see from running windows? I really see none as a software dev and os enthusiast. The only reason I kept windows so long was for a game that I stopped playing 2 years ago, and the only reason I have to use it now is because the company I currently work in has made us use it. WSL makes me embarrassed to show my work colleague how good linux/vim/tmux really is (but that might be because the laptop's…

There are lots of professional software that only runs on Windows. I don't understand why you can't run windows programs/OS and also still be an open source advocate/fan/user?

Re: X410 – X Server for Windows 10

#233

I wish, there was a standard URL suffix for "Pages for Techies", like "/techspecs", or similar. Whenever I go to a Product-Page like this one, I'm instantly turned off by the flashiness and wordy prose. I want a feature list, in text form, not an intro-movie! Before closing the tab i did notice though, that this product seems interesting, and I would have liked to read more about it.

Yeah, it's funny how often I end up going to the Wikipedia page of a company or product to find out what they're selling in plain language.

The solution would be easy: Put the flashy stuff in a div with ID "advert", and the ad-blocker will hide it from view. All non-techies gets the intro-movie.

Anyway: Here is the list of things I gathered from the comments (iiuc):

* Uses a fork of x.org with support for legacy Windows version removed.

* Costs 10$ if you find it on sale, 50$ otherwise.

* Can be installed on 10 PCs.

* Can be installed/updated via the AppStore.

* Has a windowed mode.

* Well-integrated into Windows 10 and WSL.

* Takes advantage of HyperV virtio vsock for small latency enhancement.

* If VcXsv or XMing are unstable for you, file a bugreport, and try if X410 is more stable.

* Cannot make use of hardware assisted rendering, because of underlying WSL limitation w.r.t GVT-g in some HW configurations

Re: X410 – X Server for Windows 10

#234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> X also doesn't really work if you UI is implemented with OpenGL or similar. Depends on how you use the OpenGL API. OpenGL display lists, once compiled, are extremly light on the connection. However they're also deprecreated and no longer supported in (forward compatible) OpenGL-3.3 core. But then again there's no 3.3 GLX specification.

For the stuff I'm doing (image processing), indirect GL is not an option.

In those cases I prefer using Xpra, configured to use the regular Xorg server operating on the GPU.

It would be nice if there was a X11 "media" extension to transport encoded image streams (aka video) with server side decoding into Pixmaps, Xv or SHM buffers.

Re: X410 – X Server for Windows 10

#235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same problem. There is now however the "QT_XCB_NATIVE_PAINTING" environment variable which I suggest you try.

Interesting! Would this help with abysmal performance of ssh -X too over the LAN?

It can help with bandwidth usage, but not latency.

Re: X410 – X Server for Windows 10

#236
post #4

I've been using VcXsrv ( https://sourceforge.net/projects/vcxsrv/ ) to do the same thing for a few months. It works well in most cases, but it can be janky. The scaling doesn't always work well if you're using a hidpi screen, and I had one application that was crashing consistently under certain circumstances. Definitely going to try this out, but I wonder if it's worth paying for when I have a free alternative that…

I've been using it for literally years to access the GUIs of programs running on Linux workstations from my Windows 10 machine over our LAN. I don't think it's ever crashed for me with the 3 or 4 programs I run but it's sometimes a little slow, although I'm not convinced that's the fault of vcxsrv. I have no other problems with it, my experience with scaling has been surprisingly good. I see no reason to pay for an a…

My crash happened whenever I tried using a Matlab MLX file (which are similar to Jupyter notebooks in Matlab, if you aren't familiar). Since I don't use them much, this was easy to work around. Not clear to me whether the problem was Matlab or VcXsrv.

Re: X410 – X Server for Windows 10

#237
post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You will be playing your favorite game with HDR enabled, and suddenly... it's auto update time! See you in 30 minutes. I just watched a 4k60 fps YouTube video just fine. I am surprised you didn't mention office suites. Softmaker Office/FreeOffice are very similar to MS Office, just 99.9% more responsive and less bloated.

Do you honestly believe that Windows update works like that? Windows 10 came out in 2015. And has had twice yearly updates since then. Perhaps then I should compare Ubuntu 14.04 to Windows 10 today. Really? What GPU? Free or non free driver? Wayland or Xorg? It ain't simple. Why didn't I mention office suites? Because they're not really that demanding. Text editors aren't a high bar. If the latest version of Office l…

> Really? What GPU? Free or non free driver? Wayland or Xorg? It ain't simple.

It is simple. Just use a mainstream distro, and use the default driver and the default display server. And that's it. That's what I use.

I really hate when people trash talk Linux as some masochistic experience full of rough edges that requires 1000 hours of work to tune. It is not.

On the other hand, with Windows: OEMs preinstall Windows in your computer. But that's not the only thing they install. They add unnecessary bloatware, and sometimes, even backdoors. If you decide to install it yourself, you have to download drivers. And luckily one of those drivers is not the Network card one.

Re: X410 – X Server for Windows 10

#238

Does anyone have a guide to getting i3 to work using this?

Sorry, can't edit the original post any more, but it turns out this is quite simple.

1. Start a WSL terminal

2. https://x410.dev/cookbook/wsl/setting-up-wsl-for-linux-gui-a...

3. Start X410 in floating mode

4. sudo apt update

5. sudo apt install i3

6. i3

Re: X410 – X Server for Windows 10

#239
post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you honestly believe that Windows update works like that? Windows 10 came out in 2015. And has had twice yearly updates since then. Perhaps then I should compare Ubuntu 14.04 to Windows 10 today. Really? What GPU? Free or non free driver? Wayland or Xorg? It ain't simple. Why didn't I mention office suites? Because they're not really that demanding. Text editors aren't a high bar. If the latest version of Office l…

> Really? What GPU? Free or non free driver? Wayland or Xorg? It ain't simple. It is simple. Just use a mainstream distro, and use the default driver and the default display server. And that's it. That's what I use. I really hate when people trash talk Linux as some masochistic experience full of rough edges that requires 1000 hours of work to tune. It is not. On the other hand, with Windows: OEMs preinstall Windows…

Okay:

https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=nvidia-n...

Looks like the open source Nvidia driver is horrible trash.

And seems like the most supported cards are the 600/700 series which are very old.

Also you're talking about installing a different OS what does bloatware have to do with it?

They may as well reinstall their OS fresh.

And don't be intentionally misleading. You're not going to get a computer that doesn't have support for networking out the box today on windows.

I clearly do remember having that issue on Linux where my WiFi card would require the download of a firmware binary to be able to run.

Linux desktop environments have a lot of rough edges. That's because the majority of people that use Linux use it headless.

Also in terms of functionality. I would only say KDE has near parity of features to windows as a DE.

Re: X410 – X Server for Windows 10

#240
post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

you are swapping Free Software with open source everywhere. open source was coined exactly to stride away from any spirit and ethical standings, focusing only on the code and its practical advantages when available to be shared. This way, enterprise can be more likely to accept it. (also because English-based enterprise is deemed too dumb to understand free can mean two different things) Free Software is the thing th…

That’s the FSF point of view, and I and others respectfully disagree. I don’t believe open source is better because of ethics, I do think open source would not work if everyone were as unethical as possible. I will continue to use the term “open source” to refer to the whole shebang, which has been best for communicating to most people who aren’t fighting over terminology semantics as a means to push ideology.

As a suggestion, be slightly more careful when stipulating sides. The FSF, mine and others interpretation contrasted with the OSI, yours and others would be a fairer statement. There are individuals using "Free Software", and there are organizations using "open source".

One of the key points of the creation of the term "open source" was the distancing from the ethical aspects of Free Software - to turn its face on it and "hope for the best". Yet, of course the ramifications of ethical creation, usage and sharing are usually still there on "open source" projects, since it's how things often tend to go when creating Free Software - _despite_ the new term, not _because_ of it.

> I will continue to use the term “open source” to refer to the whole shebang, which has been best for communicating to most people who aren’t fighting over terminology semantics as a means to push ideology.

By charging "open source" with the ethical+practical unity of Free Software, you are doing exactly what the very creators and advocates of the term wanted to avoid - "ideology". Therefore this point sounds so... weird?

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