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Seoul's full cafes, Apple store lines show mass testing success

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Re: Seoul's full cafes, Apple store lines show mass testing success

#141

Post by nobodyandproud »

CathedralBorrow wrote: post #127
3fe9a03ccd14ca5 wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The coordinated mainstream media. Again, the narrative is if you think the US media is partisan you’re a Trump supporter. The entire US media ecosystem is owned by only 6 companies. It used to be hip to distrust the media but now it makes you a Trump supporter or conspiracy theorist??

It's never been easier to spread your message to the world, so I would think that the "true", honest, good, non-evil, non-coordinated mainstream media would also exist in some form. Where are they?

Well, when even some FOX journalists realized that Corona was something to take seriously; and Rupert Murdoch suddenly cancelled his birthday celebration (no non-family guests).

The truth is discovered by following both sides of the argument.

Re: Seoul's full cafes, Apple store lines show mass testing success

#142

Post by collyw »

jacobolus wrote: post #122
raphlinus wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I recommend watching the whole video, as it is by far the clearest argument in favor of the "herd immunity" approach I've seen. The problem with the approach is that it assumes several things that, shall we say, there is not yet evidence for. 1. The disease is relatively mild, certainly less than an order of magnitude more fatal than influenza. 2. It is possible to protect older people and other vulnerable population…

Every one of the “reports of reinfection” I have seen was along the lines of: tested positive continuously for 2 weeks, then tested negative twice, then tested positive again a couple days later. There is no evidence in any of the cases I saw that the person was exposed to another infected person during that time period. This should not be called “reinfection” (even though there are a bunch of sloppy media headlines…

There have been a lot of unreliable tests, here in Spain at least.

Re: Seoul's full cafes, Apple store lines show mass testing success

#143

Post by neurologic »

stcredzero wrote: post #119
Reason077 wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> “masks, masks, masks.” Exactly. I wonder how many lives could have been saved if we (western/European countries) didn’t have such an aversion to wearing face masks, even in a time of pandemic?

I wonder how many lives could have been saved if we (western/European countries) didn’t have such an aversion to wearing face masks My wife and I were one of the few people wearing masks at the start of the pandemic, before the closing and work from home orders came. We were harassed by random people shouting at us. Also, I don't really get the societal penalty for disaster preparation. It's completely illogical. Jus…

> Also, I don't really get the societal penalty for disaster preparation.

It makes a lot of sense: if you're preparing for a disaster, you won't go down with everyone else when disaster strikes. This creates some feeling of resentment which caused people to lash out at you.

Re: Seoul's full cafes, Apple store lines show mass testing success

#144

Post by twomoretime »

zamfi wrote: post #114
twomoretime wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> he cares about getting the respect of his peer group & broader society. He’s not going to earn money off this, he’s going to earn respect. Whatever the case, you have to admit that you are taking for granted that his intentions are benign. There's no rule that billionaires have to be benevolent. There's a lot of soft power associated with a mandatory vaccination program but aside from that, the chipping that he is…

> you have to admit that you are taking for granted that his intentions are benign Huh? I made no such assumption. I simply speculated that he was doing this for one form of currency, and not another. He may well want to track everybody, I have no idea. But the whole premise is absurd. Bill Gates doesn’t need to inject tracking microchips into everyone through a forced vaccination program to “sway elections” — that’s…

>But the whole premise is absurd. Bill Gates doesn’t need to inject tracking microchips into everyone through a forced vaccination program to “sway elections” — that’s Hollywood supervillain-level garbage: a massively intricate complex plan that achieves so little. It’s like inventing a time machine just to use it to prove to your friend that he really did say that thing he denies he said in 1972.

That's not what I'm talking about. You're conflating vaccination with the id2020 program. Different conspiracies. I'm just saying, if you implant an RFID digital certificate, you're effectively a walking uuid beacon. I'm not saying that's where he's going but the technology is there and his foundation is funding research into something like an RFID tattoo. Very easy to convince the masses that this is a necessary technology for safety given the new normal brought about by COVID19.

If I had billions of dollars I'd certainly be tempted to play worldbuilder. I very much doubt that he sees the masses as people - not out of heartlessness, but out of a necessary objectivity. They are statistics.

Re: Seoul's full cafes, Apple store lines show mass testing success

#145

Post by corkmask »

gnusty_gnurc wrote: post #138
misun78 wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hope you are not including Cuomo — the governer at the epicenter of the worst hit NY — in your “list of good governers”? This was his quote from early March: "People are reacting like this is the Ebola virus. This is not the Ebola virus. This hysteria that you see, this fear that you see, the panic that you see is unwarranted. We have dealt with worse viruses. This spreads like the flu, but most people will have it…

He’s pretty much right though. It spreads worse than the flu and Dr. Ioaniddis recently published a serological study showing it seems to have a mortality rate similar to the flu. An overwhelming majority of people who get it will not die. Ioaniddis et. al. suggests the evidence points towards 1~2 out of a thousand mortality rate. We should not be panicking. We should be mitigating the disease based on the evidence a…

9 days ago Ioaniddis said

If I were to make an informed estimate based on the limited testing data we have, I would say that covid-19 will result in fewer than 40,000 deaths this season in the USA,

Re: Seoul's full cafes, Apple store lines show mass testing success

#146

Post by Tarsul »

jeltz wrote: post #90
raphlinus wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I recommend watching the whole video, as it is by far the clearest argument in favor of the "herd immunity" approach I've seen. The problem with the approach is that it assumes several things that, shall we say, there is not yet evidence for. 1. The disease is relatively mild, certainly less than an order of magnitude more fatal than influenza. 2. It is possible to protect older people and other vulnerable population…

Yes, that is the main issue with our strategy in Sweden. We failed to keep it away from seniors' homes. The strategy seems to have worked just fine otherwise. It stopped our hospitals from getting overwhelmed, espcially since we managed to contain it in Stockholm for the most part. But we did not have resources to test people working with the elderly.

it's even worse than not testing enough in care homes: "Its advice to the care workers and nurses looking after older people such as Bondesson’s 69-year-old mother is that they should not wear protective masks or use other protective equipment unless they are dealing with a resident in the home they have reason to suspect is infected." https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/19/anger-in-swede... The responses in the US, UK and Sweden (and probably others) are downright criminal and should put politicians in jail.

Re: Seoul's full cafes, Apple store lines show mass testing success

#147

Post by varjag »

collyw wrote: post #72
Hamuko wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sweden has a pretty high number of COVID-19 deaths, so I'm not sure if I'd like to follow their model.

It is expected that 70% of the population will get coronavirus then we will have herd immunity. The lock down is about stopping the healthcare systems getting overwhelmed (that will cause unnecessary deaths). That's the way I understand things. The same number of deaths will occur are likely to occur in the long term unless Sweden's ICU beds get full. If anyone has an alternative interpretation I am open to hearing i…

The eventual arrival of a vaccine may allow the states who are flattening the curve to have lower total amount of casualties.

Re: Seoul's full cafes, Apple store lines show mass testing success

#148

Post by gnusty_gnurc »

corkmask wrote: post #145
gnusty_gnurc wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He’s pretty much right though. It spreads worse than the flu and Dr. Ioaniddis recently published a serological study showing it seems to have a mortality rate similar to the flu. An overwhelming majority of people who get it will not die. Ioaniddis et. al. suggests the evidence points towards 1~2 out of a thousand mortality rate. We should not be panicking. We should be mitigating the disease based on the evidence a…

9 days ago Ioaniddis said If I were to make an informed estimate based on the limited testing data we have, I would say that covid-19 will result in fewer than 40,000 deaths this season in the USA,

If he's off by 1.5x (IHME model predicts 60k fatalities attributed to COVID-19), surely that's miles better than the what - 50x predicted at the start (I recall seeing 2mil fatalities passed around by Imperial for the US)? 40k deaths is a little less than a week of natural deaths in the US, for scale.

Re: Seoul's full cafes, Apple store lines show mass testing success

#149

Post by ImaCake »

op03 wrote: post #74
colmvp wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm actually slightly worried as Singapore seemed to have handled the crisis quite well with only 1000ish cases for the longest time, but have now had cases balloon from only around 1350 total cases two weeks ago to 6000 today. Certainly, a lot of it has to with migrant workers and their living situations, but it also underscores how even when you have things under control, the virus can spread rapidly when your guar…

It will be fine as long as the medical system is prepped to handle surge/moving overflow smoothly/pulling in and sharing resources etc. Remember most positives won't require hospitalization (~50% wont even show any symptoms, 40% will have mild symptoms). And compared to few months back readiness/awareness levels at hospitals is much higher.

> ~50% wont even show any symptoms

It is closer to 20% A lot of articles stating more are mis-interpreting those numbers from prospective studies. It is possible that the authors of such studies would downplay false positives as well.

Re: Seoul's full cafes, Apple store lines show mass testing success

#150

Post by coldtea »

gnusty_gnurc wrote: post #138
misun78 wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hope you are not including Cuomo — the governer at the epicenter of the worst hit NY — in your “list of good governers”? This was his quote from early March: "People are reacting like this is the Ebola virus. This is not the Ebola virus. This hysteria that you see, this fear that you see, the panic that you see is unwarranted. We have dealt with worse viruses. This spreads like the flu, but most people will have it…

He’s pretty much right though. It spreads worse than the flu and Dr. Ioaniddis recently published a serological study showing it seems to have a mortality rate similar to the flu. An overwhelming majority of people who get it will not die. Ioaniddis et. al. suggests the evidence points towards 1~2 out of a thousand mortality rate. We should not be panicking. We should be mitigating the disease based on the evidence a…

>He’s pretty much right though. It spreads worse than the flu

Err, it spreads much better, several times more than the flu.

>and Dr. Ioaniddis recently published a serological study showing it seems to have a mortality rate similar to the flu

Dr. Ioaniddis study was cherry-picked and bogus, much like the studies he was famous for criticizing...

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