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Seoul's full cafes, Apple store lines show mass testing success

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Re: Seoul's full cafes, Apple store lines show mass testing success

#131

Post by rhino369 »

zzzcpan wrote: post #93
rhino369 wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no evidentiary basis for the extreme lock-down Spain is using. While this disease is pretty contagious, you are pretty unlikely to get it walking around outside or going for a run. Especially if everyone is wearing a mask. It's possible you could catch it by running through a cloud of an infected persons breath, but the risk is low enough that we shouldn't ban outside activities. The vast, vast majority of i…

This is an ancient understanding though, it ignores aerosol transmission. But you are still correct that outside is safe, there is absolutely no need to restrict it at all, it's confined poorly ventilated spaces that are a problem, like almost any building, cars, buses, planes, where the virus can concentrate in the air and close range contact isn't even needed, just breathing such air is bad enough. Wearing a mask i…

There is no significant evidence that suggests aerosol transmission is a statistically significant source of transmission.

Re: Seoul's full cafes, Apple store lines show mass testing success

#132

Post by yongjik »

Aeolun wrote: post #64
colmvp wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm actually slightly worried as Singapore seemed to have handled the crisis quite well with only 1000ish cases for the longest time, but have now had cases balloon from only around 1350 total cases two weeks ago to 6000 today. Certainly, a lot of it has to with migrant workers and their living situations, but it also underscores how even when you have things under control, the virus can spread rapidly when your guar…

Same thing is true for Japan. Everything seems fine for a while, and suddenly the numbers explode.

Couldn't find a better page, but according to a past version of wikipedia table[1], as of Mar 31, Japan had tested 32,497 people. The US had tested 1,108,500; South Korea, 410,564.

A lot of people were perplexed by Japan's lack of testing. Seems like Japan's strategy (whatever it was) didn't work out in the end.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template:COVID-19...

Re: Seoul's full cafes, Apple store lines show mass testing success

#133

Post by tpm »

_ph_ wrote: post #100
Reason077 wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> “masks, masks, masks.” Exactly. I wonder how many lives could have been saved if we (western/European countries) didn’t have such an aversion to wearing face masks, even in a time of pandemic?

Well, first of all, there were no masks to wear. Not even enough to properly equip all medical personal. But yes, if people would wear masks whenever there is the risk that they are sick, be it Covid-19, the flu or just a cold, it would be beneficial.

That didn't stop some Eastern European countries from mandating their use in public and an industry quickly emerged around that.

Re: Seoul's full cafes, Apple store lines show mass testing success

#134

Post by misun78 »

socialdemocrat wrote: post #104
WillPostForFood wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The article and discussions about Korea seem to mainly revolve around testing and contact tracing. These are complex and expensive, and substantially more difficult to manage in a country like the US which is 7x the population, and is somewhat decentralized (50 states). Meanwhile, the on the street observations in the article are: masks, masks, masks. Masks are cheap and easy. So let's start with masks, masks, masks…

I think in principle hindering spread is much EASIER in the US than in South Korea. The US has a huge advantage in its low population density and spread out population. That slows down the spread of disease. Not to mention the advantage of a car centric society. In the US you can travel from A to B without exposing yourself to other people. Americans also mostly live in separate houses further reducing the risk of th…

I hope you are not including Cuomo — the governer at the epicenter of the worst hit NY — in your “list of good governers”? This was his quote from early March:

"People are reacting like this is the Ebola virus. This is not the Ebola virus. This hysteria that you see, this fear that you see, the panic that you see is unwarranted. We have dealt with worse viruses. This spreads like the flu, but most people will have it and they get on with their lives."

Re: Seoul's full cafes, Apple store lines show mass testing success

#135

Post by collyw »

SpicyLemonZest wrote: post #92
collyw wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn't watch it, but a couple of the bullet points look pretty untrustworthy. Covid-19 is a “mild disease” and similar to the flu, and it was the novelty of the disease that scared people. It's a fair bit nastier, certainly in some cases, or the hospitals wouldn't be full. The actual fatality rate of Covid-19 is the region of 0.1% How can we be sure until we have widespread testing? At least 50% of the population o…

We won't be sure of such statistics whether or not we have widespread testing. Even for pandemics in the past, we just don't know how many people caught them, not even a single significant digit. The best we can do is make reasoned guesses based on the available evidence.

That's why I am suspicious of the claims it makes.

Re: Seoul's full cafes, Apple store lines show mass testing success

#136

Post by PeterStuer »

Reason077 wrote: post #68
WillPostForFood wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The article and discussions about Korea seem to mainly revolve around testing and contact tracing. These are complex and expensive, and substantially more difficult to manage in a country like the US which is 7x the population, and is somewhat decentralized (50 states). Meanwhile, the on the street observations in the article are: masks, masks, masks. Masks are cheap and easy. So let's start with masks, masks, masks…

> “masks, masks, masks.” Exactly. I wonder how many lives could have been saved if we (western/European countries) didn’t have such an aversion to wearing face masks, even in a time of pandemic?

we don't have an aversion to it. Neoliberal governments went out of their way to chastise mask wearing because it would paint a bad picture as they wanted people to actually just die "for the economy".

Re: Seoul's full cafes, Apple store lines show mass testing success

#137

Post by frosted-flakes »

misun78 wrote: post #134
socialdemocrat wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think in principle hindering spread is much EASIER in the US than in South Korea. The US has a huge advantage in its low population density and spread out population. That slows down the spread of disease. Not to mention the advantage of a car centric society. In the US you can travel from A to B without exposing yourself to other people. Americans also mostly live in separate houses further reducing the risk of th…

I hope you are not including Cuomo — the governer at the epicenter of the worst hit NY — in your “list of good governers”? This was his quote from early March: "People are reacting like this is the Ebola virus. This is not the Ebola virus. This hysteria that you see, this fear that you see, the panic that you see is unwarranted. We have dealt with worse viruses. This spreads like the flu, but most people will have it…

Yeah, he was wrong. But he's changed his tune, and has done a decently good job managing the situation.

Re: Seoul's full cafes, Apple store lines show mass testing success

#138

Post by gnusty_gnurc »

misun78 wrote: post #134
socialdemocrat wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think in principle hindering spread is much EASIER in the US than in South Korea. The US has a huge advantage in its low population density and spread out population. That slows down the spread of disease. Not to mention the advantage of a car centric society. In the US you can travel from A to B without exposing yourself to other people. Americans also mostly live in separate houses further reducing the risk of th…

I hope you are not including Cuomo — the governer at the epicenter of the worst hit NY — in your “list of good governers”? This was his quote from early March: "People are reacting like this is the Ebola virus. This is not the Ebola virus. This hysteria that you see, this fear that you see, the panic that you see is unwarranted. We have dealt with worse viruses. This spreads like the flu, but most people will have it…

He’s pretty much right though. It spreads worse than the flu and Dr. Ioaniddis recently published a serological study showing it seems to have a mortality rate similar to the flu. An overwhelming majority of people who get it will not die. Ioaniddis et. al. suggests the evidence points towards 1~2 out of a thousand mortality rate.

We should not be panicking. We should be mitigating the disease based on the evidence at hand.

Re: Seoul's full cafes, Apple store lines show mass testing success

#139

Post by rmah »

lovehashbrowns wrote: post #85
FriendlyNormie wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your comment only appeals to people who already agree with you, therefore it’s useless. If you want people to take you seriously then you can begin by addressing any of his points rather than fixating on the word “money” as if that was his entire argument. I can’t see his comment because he edited it but I’m assuming he provided plenty of evidence such as the timing of Event 201 and its focus on coronaviruses. Maybe…

Event 201 as in the pandemic preparedness exercise? And its focus on coronaviruses because of SARS and MERS? Is that really all it takes to start an entire conspiracy lol

Oh, it takes far less than that to start a conspiracy theory.

Re: Seoul's full cafes, Apple store lines show mass testing success

#140

Post by nobodyandproud »

3fe9a03ccd14ca5 wrote: post #98
andybak wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who's "they"? From an outside perspective (UK) everyone seems to be making it political - Trump especially so.

The coordinated mainstream media. Again, the narrative is if you think the US media is partisan you’re a Trump supporter. The entire US media ecosystem is owned by only 6 companies. It used to be hip to distrust the media but now it makes you a Trump supporter or conspiracy theorist??

Because the indisputable facts are ignored by Trump and his supporters.

The US had a small, dedicated team to track animal-based infectious diseases (Predict). The Trump administration cut funding for it and it was dismantled last year. This dismantling was purely for ideological reasons.

South Korea—an extremely market driven and democratic nation—also has nationalized health care.

This means nobody has to wonder if they can afford testing because the leaders understood what was at stake. When Pence was asked this question, it was regarded as a political potshot by the journalist and dismissed out of hand. I remember this clearly, as I watched this in real-time when I was getting a haircut.

South Korea took MERsS and SARS to heart and kept its experts in place; allowing SK to assess the danger rapidly. They too had their conservative party fight tooth and nail to make their administration (liberal) look incompetent.

Meanwhile Trump supporters have insisted for months and still do. that this was mostly a liberal follow-up to a failed impeachment.

The difference between how SK coordinated and how the US did not cannot be ignored, and a key difference is that the administration in power didn’t view their experts with suspicion as deep-state or as a money-sink for third-world-only issues.

At every step Trump has shown that he does not nominate or keep anyone due to their competence in their field.

There’s no dispute about these facts. Yet anyone who views current events with suspicion only has innuendo to back their position.

Therefore, calling out anti-journalists for what they are is well-deserved.

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