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IE6countdown.com – a wolf in sheep's clothing

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Re: IE6countdown.com – a wolf in sheep's clothing

#81

Post by yuhong »

nkassis wrote: post #70
kenjackson wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find it amazing that people seem to be more concerned about upgrading the browser than upgrading the OS. The delta between XP and Win7 is so much larger than IE8 and IE9 that having this discussion is almost embarrassing. While I get that this may make the life of the HTML5 dev easier -- its just dwarfed by the importance of getting people off of a dangerous OS. While in theory it would be nice to see MS support XP…

They should make a free Windows 7 Basic basic (basically XP but newer ;p) upgrade. That way people would have a option but that IF they have a PC capable of running a basic version of Windows 7.

Yea, it is pretty stupid this time they made Home Basic available only in developing countries.

Re: IE6countdown.com – a wolf in sheep's clothing

#82

Post by coderdude »

alanh wrote: post #80
coderdude wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My claim is that it's best for Microsoft to keep their users on their software, which it is. Given that this is what will happen (Microsoft isn't going to suddenly start suggesting people download Firefox) then the next best thing is for them to suggest people upgrade to IE8 and eventually IE9. I hate IE just as much as the next guy but in this reality this is the best option available to us. Sure, it's best for huma…

“My claim is that it's best for Microsoft to keep their users on their software, which it is.” Pardon me, but you posted 20 comments to this discussion and your only “claim” is backed up by you saying “which it is”? Then what is your point? Not to be rude, but why say anything at all? How does anyone know it’s “best to keep them on their [old] software”? If no one used IE8, would not Microsoft also be free to use new…

>Pardon me, but you posted 20 comments to this discussion and your only “claim” is backed up by you saying “which it is”?

Ok then, it's not in Microsoft's best interest to keep users on IE? If you don't think the logic is plain enough to stand on its own please tell me why. How is it good for Microsoft to lose market share? That was my claim. It isn't good from their point of view for themselves to lose users. I don't think I need a citation there.

>How does anyone know it’s “best to keep them on their [old] software”?

IE8 isn't their old software. It's their current software. IE9 is the new software which hasn't been released to their users.

>If no one used IE8, would not Microsoft also be free to use newer web standards to create better, faster-loading web apps with less development time?

Their plan is to migrate to IE9 which is a good browser. This is their plan for being able to create better, faster-loading Web apps with less development time. The best part is we all benefit from this.

>What benefit to Microsoft is there having IE8 users?

Migration path to IE9. In the mean time it's better for the entire world that IE6 users become IE8 users and eventually upgrade to IE9. Literally it would be best if they were Chrome or Firefox users but let's don't get silly -- most users don't care and it's not Microsoft's job to sell those users on other people's software.

Re: IE6countdown.com – a wolf in sheep's clothing

#84

Post by wheels »

coderdude wrote: post #40
SwellJoe wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I want them to upgrade to a modern browser. IE8 aint one.

IE8 is leaps and bounds better than IE6. In IE8 you barely even need to tweak sites to get them to look right. I'd be tickled pink if IE8 was all I had to worry about. IE9 is going to be much better than IE8 -- by leaps and bounds -- but it's still in beta. At least the release candidate is out. Some people are never satisfied and always need something to complain about. I'm sure you'll find something else once IE9 i…

-Microsoft IS NOT going to suggest that people download Firefox or Chrome.

I really don't understand the benefit of IE having its own rendering engine. While I can't imagine MS abandoning IE, I can't see any business reason (other than hubris) for them maintaining a worst-of-breed rendering and JS engine at great cost to themselves.

(And just for the record, basically agree with you on all points.)

Re: IE6countdown.com – a wolf in sheep's clothing

#85

Post by EGreg »

coderdude wrote: post #54
MiguelHudnandez wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IE8 is better than IE6, but if someone is going to upgrade their browser, they should upgrade to the best one available. On windows XP, they can't get IE9, but they can get Chrome, Firefox, or Opera. It'd be like making a trip to a gas station and filling up to half a tank. Because half a tank is better than an empty tank, right? But... while you're going to all that trouble, why not top it off? Of course this strate…

>IE8 is better than IE6, but if someone is going to upgrade their browser, they should upgrade to the best one available. On windows XP, they can't get IE9, but they can get Chrome, Firefox, or Opera. As I said in an earlier comment, it's not in Microsoft's best interest to move people off Microsoft browsers but it is in developers' best interest to have them move to at least IE8. It's a much better browser that requ…

But it's in the developers' even BETTER interest to move them to Chrome or Firefox.

Why wouldn't they just install this? http://code.google.com/chrome/chromeframe/

Microsoft is obviously doing this to keep IE relevant.

Re: IE6countdown.com – a wolf in sheep's clothing

#86

Post by coderdude »

EGreg wrote: post #85
coderdude wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>IE8 is better than IE6, but if someone is going to upgrade their browser, they should upgrade to the best one available. On windows XP, they can't get IE9, but they can get Chrome, Firefox, or Opera. As I said in an earlier comment, it's not in Microsoft's best interest to move people off Microsoft browsers but it is in developers' best interest to have them move to at least IE8. It's a much better browser that requ…

But it's in the developers' even BETTER interest to move them to Chrome or Firefox. Why wouldn't they just install this? http://code.google.com/chrome/chromeframe/ Microsoft is obviously doing this to keep IE relevant.

I know it's in developers' even better interest to have all users using Chrome or Firefox. I've said this numerous times and I don't think anyone is arguing against that. But there isn't going to be a link on Microsoft's site to Firefox. I can't figure out why people keep bringing this up. It's not like it hasn't occurred to me -- I'm a designer too. I know how much it sucks fixing IE problems in layouts. What I also know is that there are waaay fewer problems with IE8 than with IE6 and since this is the best we can hope for that's what I'm trying to convey here.

Re: IE6countdown.com – a wolf in sheep's clothing

#87

Post by robryan »

mkr-hn wrote: post #18
tommi wrote: post #10

"Given that everyone using IE6 is, at best, running Windows XP, and given that Microsoft have stated that IE9 won't be available for pre-Vista SP2 OSs, the most recent version of Internet Explorer they could ever hope to upgrade to is IE8." unless they upgrade Windows. Which they should.

I've got no real reason to. XP works fine, and it's secure enough. Java isn't installed, and flash is enabled on a case-by-case basis ( I'll probably have this laptop (and XP) for another year or so. Now, try convincing someone who _doesn't_ know much about computers to upgrade. All these "everyone should upgrade" declarations I keep seeing won't do it.

Yeah, even as someone who works with computers all day I only upgraded my desktop less than a year ago. Sure there are a few nice things that Windows7 does but coming at it from the regular users perspective, unless things stop working that they use frequently there isn't a lot of motivation to upgrade. So unless games stop supporting XP, browsers as a whole move away from it, computers actually start doing something a lot cooler with the latest version or some exploit starts owning all XP installs I can't see a great amount of motivation for the average user.

Re: IE6countdown.com – a wolf in sheep's clothing

#88

Post by statictype »

wheels wrote: post #84
coderdude wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IE8 is leaps and bounds better than IE6. In IE8 you barely even need to tweak sites to get them to look right. I'd be tickled pink if IE8 was all I had to worry about. IE9 is going to be much better than IE8 -- by leaps and bounds -- but it's still in beta. At least the release candidate is out. Some people are never satisfied and always need something to complain about. I'm sure you'll find something else once IE9 i…

-Microsoft IS NOT going to suggest that people download Firefox or Chrome. I really don't understand the benefit of IE having its own rendering engine . While I can't imagine MS abandoning IE, I can't see any business reason (other than hubris) for them maintaining a worst-of-breed rendering and JS engine at great cost to themselves. (And just for the record, basically agree with you on all points.)

Because a lot of companies rely on IE's rendering engine. There are a lot of sites (mostly internal but external as well) that use technologies like ActiveX which only work on IE's engine. For example, almost every site served up by an ip camera uses an activex plugin to view video.

Re: IE6countdown.com – a wolf in sheep's clothing

#89

Post by jiffifrazik »

coderdude wrote: post #40
SwellJoe wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I want them to upgrade to a modern browser. IE8 aint one.

IE8 is leaps and bounds better than IE6. In IE8 you barely even need to tweak sites to get them to look right. I'd be tickled pink if IE8 was all I had to worry about. IE9 is going to be much better than IE8 -- by leaps and bounds -- but it's still in beta. At least the release candidate is out. Some people are never satisfied and always need something to complain about. I'm sure you'll find something else once IE9 i…

You know Safari DOES support XP?

No one uses OS 9 anymore. Loads use XP. Get it? It's Microsoft's mess to clean up, and browser-wise, three separate efforts can do it! If Microsoft can't, they should pass the ball to someone who can.

Anything else hurts the web.

You may have posted the most one-sided, thick-skulled, baseless comment I've ever seen on HN.

Re: IE6countdown.com – a wolf in sheep's clothing

#90

Post by jiffifrazik »

coderdude wrote: post #50
SwellJoe wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Somehow the Chrome, Firefox, Safari, and Opera teams manage to provide a modern browser on Windows XP. This isn't about "finding something to complain about". I want a modern web, and I want Microsoft to get out of the way of that happening.

I think you're being a bit unreasonable here. IE9 relies on parts of Windows that just don't exist in XP. Windows XP is ancient by software standards. Sure, Chrome et al. work in all operating systems, but you're upset at Microsoft because they don't want to support an operating system that they want people off of already. It's their decision and I'm glad they want people to upgrade. People got mad because users didn…

You are a Microsoft astroturfer, right? (Before downvoting, people, read up on this. Microsoft does it. "coderdude"'s "website" is a vaguely Microsoftian coming-soon page...)
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