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IE6countdown.com – a wolf in sheep's clothing

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Re: IE6countdown.com – a wolf in sheep's clothing

#71

Post by bergie »

rbanffy wrote: post #47
coderdude wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IE8 is leaps and bounds better than IE6. In IE8 you barely even need to tweak sites to get them to look right. I'd be tickled pink if IE8 was all I had to worry about. IE9 is going to be much better than IE8 -- by leaps and bounds -- but it's still in beta. At least the release candidate is out. Some people are never satisfied and always need something to complain about. I'm sure you'll find something else once IE9 i…

> IE8 is leaps and bounds better than IE6 A brick is leaps and bounds better than IE6 I learned not to attribute to malice what could be explained by incompetence, but, sadly, incompetence alone cannot explain a company the size of Microsoft being unable to offer a modern standards-compliant browser.

You're supposed to use SilverLight, not the web

Re: IE6countdown.com – a wolf in sheep's clothing

#72

Post by alanh »

coderdude wrote: post #62
rbanffy wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That's why it's great news that Microsoft wants users to upgrade to at least IE8. Which is the worst browser you can easily download these days. > They will have IE9 once they upgrade their ancient OS as well. After they failed miserably to move Windows users out of IE6, forgive me if I am a little skeptical when they suggest the move from IE7 and IE8 to IE9 will be an easy one.

>Which is the worst browser you can easily download these days. This isn't some utopia where we can all get what we want. If I had my way there would be no IEs. I hate Internet Explorer. The reality of the situation though is that IE8 is the best option available [for people who don't know any better] in the world we live in. IE9 will soon be the best option for people who have an up-to-date operating system. Then we…

I can't believe you're claiming it's better for ANYONE for Microsoft to recommend the worst current browser to the 50% of their client base (XP users) when Opera, Chrome, Safari, and Firefox run on that system!

Re: IE6countdown.com – a wolf in sheep's clothing

#73

Post by coderdude »

alanh wrote: post #72
coderdude wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Which is the worst browser you can easily download these days. This isn't some utopia where we can all get what we want. If I had my way there would be no IEs. I hate Internet Explorer. The reality of the situation though is that IE8 is the best option available [for people who don't know any better] in the world we live in. IE9 will soon be the best option for people who have an up-to-date operating system. Then we…

I can't believe you're claiming it's better for ANYONE for Microsoft to recommend the worst current browser to the 50% of their client base (XP users) when Opera, Chrome, Safari, and Firefox run on that system!

My claim is that it's best for Microsoft to keep their users on their software, which it is. Given that this is what will happen (Microsoft isn't going to suddenly start suggesting people download Firefox) then the next best thing is for them to suggest people upgrade to IE8 and eventually IE9. I hate IE just as much as the next guy but in this reality this is the best option available to us.

Sure, it's best for humanity that people use Chrome or Firefox but I'm not arguing ideals here. I'm looking at the facts of the situation and rolling with them.

Re: IE6countdown.com – a wolf in sheep's clothing

#74

Post by Tudisco »

maukdaddy wrote: post #11

Do geeks always need something to bitch about? Microsoft is at least making an effort to do as most people wish, getting users to upgrade from IE6.

Geeks are always bitching. I think this is better than doing nothing. They can't exactly erase the past. I think its a step in the right direction. IE9 is going to be better but still not perfect. But, again, at least its better. I am all for better. Though I would link users to alternative browser... why can't the complaining geeks just use their own banner.

Re: IE6countdown.com – a wolf in sheep's clothing

#75

Post by originalgeek »

maukdaddy wrote: post #11

Do geeks always need something to bitch about? Microsoft is at least making an effort to do as most people wish, getting users to upgrade from IE6.

Careful with painting us all with the wide brush. We don't all like to bitch about stuff that, really, is beyond our control.

Re: IE6countdown.com – a wolf in sheep's clothing

#76

Post by middus »

kenjackson wrote: post #59
SwellJoe wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Somehow the Chrome, Firefox, Safari, and Opera teams manage to provide a modern browser on Windows XP. This isn't about "finding something to complain about". I want a modern web, and I want Microsoft to get out of the way of that happening.

I find it amazing that people seem to be more concerned about upgrading the browser than upgrading the OS. The delta between XP and Win7 is so much larger than IE8 and IE9 that having this discussion is almost embarrassing. While I get that this may make the life of the HTML5 dev easier -- its just dwarfed by the importance of getting people off of a dangerous OS. While in theory it would be nice to see MS support XP…

Thing is: I don't care if you run XP or Win7 (or Mac OS X or Ubuntu for that matter) because my software does not run on top of the OS but on top of a modern browsers. So the IE8/9 difference matters to me, the OS difference does not. Don't forget that most (or at least a lot of) people here on HN develop or run web apps.

Re: IE6countdown.com – a wolf in sheep's clothing

#77

Post by coderdude »

rbanffy wrote: post #48
coderdude wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is that a valid point? In what alternate universe is it a good idea for Microsoft to attempt to convert their users to a non-Microsoft browser (from Microsoft's stand-point)? Even if it's good for the users, it's their users, and it's entirely logical for them to want to keep them.

> In what alternate universe is it a good idea for Microsoft to attempt to convert their users to a non-Microsoft browser (from Microsoft's stand-point)? Exactly. It's stupid for Microsoft, but everyone else would benefit from no longer having to cope with Internet Explorer. Heck. Even Microsoft would stop spending money developing their browsers and that would certainly improve their bottom line (much like abandonin…

The only people "coping" with IE are Web developers. Most users that have something greater than IE6 never even notice that poor experience nor do they know any better to begin with -- I don't even think a lot of users could tell the difference if you showed them. Try showing your grandmother why Chrome is better. I know I would have a hard time "selling it."

>Heck. Even Microsoft would stop spending money developing their browsers and that would certainly improve their bottom line

Are you just anti-Microsoft trolling? This doesn't follow any kind of logic. "They would sure benefit from having millions of users not use their Web browser." What?

Re: IE6countdown.com – a wolf in sheep's clothing

#78

Post by gcb »

coderdude wrote: post #62
rbanffy wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That's why it's great news that Microsoft wants users to upgrade to at least IE8. Which is the worst browser you can easily download these days. > They will have IE9 once they upgrade their ancient OS as well. After they failed miserably to move Windows users out of IE6, forgive me if I am a little skeptical when they suggest the move from IE7 and IE8 to IE9 will be an easy one.

>Which is the worst browser you can easily download these days. This isn't some utopia where we can all get what we want. If I had my way there would be no IEs. I hate Internet Explorer. The reality of the situation though is that IE8 is the best option available [for people who don't know any better] in the world we live in. IE9 will soon be the best option for people who have an up-to-date operating system. Then we…

> > Which is the worst browser you can easily download these days. > This isn't some utopia where we can all get what we want.

Now you are just completely missing the point.

Microsoft is asking YOU, to waste your time, your bandwidth, and your visitor time to download IE8 if they are using IE6.

now i could argue "This isn't some utopia, MICROSOFT, where we can all get what we want." see what i did there?

now, it's your time. your site. you can very well show a banner telling IE6 users to download firefox or chrome or opera. Hell, it's my dam site. on some of my online games that i wrote for fun i even ridiculize people that show up with IE6.

Re: IE6countdown.com – a wolf in sheep's clothing

#79

Post by tesseract »

nkassis wrote: post #70
kenjackson wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find it amazing that people seem to be more concerned about upgrading the browser than upgrading the OS. The delta between XP and Win7 is so much larger than IE8 and IE9 that having this discussion is almost embarrassing. While I get that this may make the life of the HTML5 dev easier -- its just dwarfed by the importance of getting people off of a dangerous OS. While in theory it would be nice to see MS support XP…

They should make a free Windows 7 Basic basic (basically XP but newer ;p) upgrade. That way people would have a option but that IF they have a PC capable of running a basic version of Windows 7.

Really I think it's surprising that MS hasn't done this rather than continuing to spend money on XP security patches.

Re: IE6countdown.com – a wolf in sheep's clothing

#80

Post by alanh »

coderdude wrote: post #73
alanh wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't believe you're claiming it's better for ANYONE for Microsoft to recommend the worst current browser to the 50% of their client base (XP users) when Opera, Chrome, Safari, and Firefox run on that system!

My claim is that it's best for Microsoft to keep their users on their software, which it is. Given that this is what will happen (Microsoft isn't going to suddenly start suggesting people download Firefox) then the next best thing is for them to suggest people upgrade to IE8 and eventually IE9. I hate IE just as much as the next guy but in this reality this is the best option available to us. Sure, it's best for huma…

“My claim is that it's best for Microsoft to keep their users on their software, which it is.”

Pardon me, but you posted 20 comments to this discussion and your only “claim” is backed up by you saying “which it is”? Then what is your point? Not to be rude, but why say anything at all?

How does anyone know it’s “best to keep them on their [old] software”? If no one used IE8, would not Microsoft also be free to use newer web standards to create better, faster-loading web apps with less development time? What benefit to Microsoft is there having IE8 users?

Edit: Your reply still doesn’t show how you figure it’s better for Microsoft to have people on IE8 than on (say) Chrome, despite my possible counter-argument. You say market share for market share’s sake is good? Why?

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