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How the Anti-Vaccine Community Is Responding to Covid-19

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Re: How the Anti-Vaccine Community Is Responding to Covid-19

#91
post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that 1) is just a strawman no medical expert agrees to.

We're not talking about medical experts here.

Yes. The article clearly discusses how select individuals disagree with majority medical opinion with basically zero evidence. So the opinion of medical experts matters.

Re: How the Anti-Vaccine Community Is Responding to Covid-19

#92
post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, technically you can try to be more careful in distinguishing between different positions, such as people who are against vaccines and those who are for "delayed" vaccines. It doesn't really change the fact that both have no real evidence to provide for their claims and are promoting practices that, if not well-supported, are clearly dangerous. But more importantly, Bob Sears's opinion on e.g. measles doesn't eve…

The problem is that the only organizations wealthy enough to do the necessary tests to provide "proof" have ZERO motivation to do anything that could jeopardize their already flowing coffers. I mean, the govt could do it, if they weren't in the pockets of the corps. What I'm saying is that if you're waiting for the pharma corps to provide the necessary studies to show their products ineffective or even dangerous, I'd…

The problem with your argument is that it's simply unfalsifiable. It could serve to justify any kind of opinion. How do we know the earth is not really flat?

Of course, you also choose to ignore how many people don't die anymore from totally curable diseases that were a certain death sentence even just decades ago (e.g. take AIDS).

Re: How the Anti-Vaccine Community Is Responding to Covid-19

#93
post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The more melanin a person has the less D their skin makes per same time of exposure. That explains the minority differences. My wife's son is a doctor. He specifically told us to take D supplements, but not the kids. That you are willing to even argue this is detrimental to society because you are obviously too stupid to know how stupid you are, which involves a lot of "I don't really know but I'll just spout off my…

First of all, "my wife's son is a doctor" is not evidence. Second, of all, your inflammatory tone is unwarranted and adds nothing of value. It would be better if you actually looked at the sources and referenced those in your critique. Of course, it would also be good if you didn't misconstrue my argument, e.g. I neither claimed that there are no vitamin D absorption differences between ethnicities, nor that low leve…

[flagged]

Re: How the Anti-Vaccine Community Is Responding to Covid-19

#94
post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We're not talking about medical experts here.

Yes. The article clearly discusses how select individuals disagree with majority medical opinion with basically zero evidence. So the opinion of medical experts matters.

That's not who the OP was talking about, not-Einstein. He's talking about the idiots who idiotically polarize needed conversations that need nuance. a-hem

Re: How the Anti-Vaccine Community Is Responding to Covid-19

#95
post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that the only organizations wealthy enough to do the necessary tests to provide "proof" have ZERO motivation to do anything that could jeopardize their already flowing coffers. I mean, the govt could do it, if they weren't in the pockets of the corps. What I'm saying is that if you're waiting for the pharma corps to provide the necessary studies to show their products ineffective or even dangerous, I'd…

The problem with your argument is that it's simply unfalsifiable. It could serve to justify any kind of opinion. How do we know the earth is not really flat? Of course, you also choose to ignore how many people don't die anymore from totally curable diseases that were a certain death sentence even just decades ago (e.g. take AIDS).

If I need to explain to you how we know that the Earth is not flat, then I should just end this conver

Re: How the Anti-Vaccine Community Is Responding to Covid-19

#96
post #66
post #47

One fair point "Floyd said, “are talking about washing your hands, but why aren’t they talking about things you can do to boost your immune system like vitamin D?" Given that in some countries in the northern hemisphere we are seeing a disproportionate number of ethnic minorities deaths from this, the aspect that vitamin D or lack of, does seem to be a factor and certainly one in which such advice would do more good…

I don't find this evidence convincing. Your first link just lists health benefits of vitamin D, and discusses how different ethnicities absorb it differently, which I don't want to dispute. The second link just states that minority populations are more at risk without making any link to vitamin D. This is, at best, a correlation (in fact, I'm not even sure the data does go that far) and implies no causal mechanism. S…

Sure it's a correlation, in much the same way SAD syndrome more prevalent the further North you go. But some things may well have better papers or links, I was just pointing out what seems to be logical - however - watch this please: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GCSXNGc7pfs

A Doctor who has been doing a fair and most excellent overview with a critical mind upon this whole COVID-19 from early on and focused upon evidence. He covers things in a way that may hold more gravitas to that aspect.

One of the many useful reference links from that video that I think covers all this fair and square.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/32252338

Re: How the Anti-Vaccine Community Is Responding to Covid-19

#97
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The burden on proof is on the one making claims against the scientific consensus. If they don't (they never do, or it never holds up), quack is 100% the right word.

But when the consensus is based upon for-profit goal-seeking corps that have engaged in successful regulatory capture, it is your duty to question it. Why, pray tell, are the US's vax schedules so heavy compared to Europe? Are all their doctors quacks are is our medical system bought-and-sold by B-schoolers? I know the answer and I doubt you're willing to even entertain the truth much less accept it. But I'd love to…

> Why, pray tell, are the US's vax schedules so heavy compared to Europe? Are all their doctors quacks are is our medical system bought-and-sold by B-schoolers?

What are the differences in vaccination schedule that you're worried about? We need to be specific in these kinds of discussion. It may be true that there is no difference in vaccination schedules, but it may also be true that the countries you claim have different vaccination schedules are responding to local needs (vs. being worried about 'heavy' vaccination regimens).

Re: How the Anti-Vaccine Community Is Responding to Covid-19

#98
post #4

In one word: predictably.

I don't usually award glib posts with upvotes but I did for you.

I think you capture the fundamental issue: who cares what they think? Objectively, we should care less about what they think about covid-19 than any other group because of their track record of scientific illiteracy on the precise subject under discussion.

Aside from anthropological and related disease mitigation strategies, what anti-vax people think about this is not worth a second of attention. The odds favor that objectively ignorant people will continue to make poor assessments based on facts.

edit: thankfully it is flagged.

Re: How the Anti-Vaccine Community Is Responding to Covid-19

#99
post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We can agree that profit motive can corrupt science and delivery of medicine without declaring that all of medicine is therefore bad. It is called not throwing out the baby with the bath water. Smart people make finer distinctions.

Honest, capable people don't put words in other people's mouths. Please show me where I said, "All of medicine is therefore bad." No, you said that. Now, will you apologize? I doubt it. Will you do better at reading and understanding in the future? I sincerely hope so.

>>Smart people are loathe to trust for-profit corps with their health.

The sentence very clearly implies all, and nowhere in the post is an indication that you mean any restriction to part (vs all) of the med/pharm profession

In fact, you go out of your way to point out the malfeasance pushing opioids and imply that it also applies to vaccines, when it is entirely different industry segments, companies, etc.

I'll not only not apolgize, I'll point out that you are specifically arguing in bad faith, disingenuously arguing by implication, and when called out on it, histrionically backtracking and accusing others of falsehoods.

Grow up. learn science, stop trying to disingenuously undermine the good work of generations of researchers and physicians that keeps you healthy.

Sheesh

Re: How the Anti-Vaccine Community Is Responding to Covid-19

#100
post #96
post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't find this evidence convincing. Your first link just lists health benefits of vitamin D, and discusses how different ethnicities absorb it differently, which I don't want to dispute. The second link just states that minority populations are more at risk without making any link to vitamin D. This is, at best, a correlation (in fact, I'm not even sure the data does go that far) and implies no causal mechanism. S…

Sure it's a correlation, in much the same way SAD syndrome more prevalent the further North you go. But some things may well have better papers or links, I was just pointing out what seems to be logical - however - watch this please: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GCSXNGc7pfs A Doctor who has been doing a fair and most excellent overview with a critical mind upon this whole COVID-19 from early on and focused upon ev…

Thank you for the link. I was not aware of any such suspected connection, now I know better.

The abstract concludes that " randomized controlled trials and large population studies should be conducted to evaluate these recommendations". This seems to indicate that the finding is still quite preliminary (the study is rather new), so in that light it doesn't surprise me that it isn't a general recommendation yet.

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