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Apple changes default MacBook charging behavior to improve battery health

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Re: Apple changes default MacBook charging behavior to improve battery health

#321

Post by cb22 »

ben-schaaf wrote: post #185
mjayhn wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it makes you feel any better I branched off to a XPS 13 2in1 4 months ago in between jobs (where I use the latest mbp) and used the thing for 2-3 months with no MBP as backup. I absolutely hate it. It throttles constantly even after undervolting it. I had to do a bunch of black magic to get it to sleep properly (which is evidently happening to every Dell) and eventually gave up on that and just set it to hibernate…

I've heard that most of the Xps lineup has cooling issues. On the other hand I've got an Aero 15 (2018 I think), fan noise is decent and after a small undervolt it can indefinitely sustain max single core turbo speeds (4.1GHz) with respectable all core turbo (3.7GHz), while sitting at 70C. There are laptops out there with adequate cooling solutions out there.

To give some numbers to the comment I made previously in this thread, with an XPS 7390 2-in-1:

Single core turbo 3.9GHz, maintains indefinitely, temperature hovers around ~75 degrees, fans around 5000RPM

All core turbo: Keeps 3.4GHz and ~45W TDP for around 10 seconds, before dropping to 2.7GHz and ~25W TDP indefinitely. Temps still around ~75, with the fans around 8000 RPM.

That's without any undervolting, but with the processor set for 25W TDP (like the Windows "Ultra Performance" mode). Adding in some undervolting gets the all core turbo up to 2.9GHz.

Re: Apple changes default MacBook charging behavior to improve battery health

#322

Post by serf »

xorcist wrote: post #271
closeparen wrote: post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A removable battery requires its own protective shell, which costs weight and thickness. When it's not user serviceable, it can just be a bag of acid resting on the main board, piggybacking on the device's own case for the required protection.

Non-removable just means it's soldered down. Open a phone and you will see that the batteries certainly have just the kind of plastic shell that they always had.

most phones and tablets i've worked on recently certainly do not have any plastic shell on non-removable batteries; unless you consider shrink tubing a shell.

They are usually constructed of layers of battery material, wrapped in kapton tape or an equivalent, with the entire package shrink-tubed and a pigtail coming out the side for the device interface.

One could easily crush the unit by hand, the construction offers little to no protection from physical forces.

Re: Apple changes default MacBook charging behavior to improve battery health

#323

Post by serf »

knodi123 wrote: post #73
ratww wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been explained that this is because those computers might need more power than the AC Charger is able to provide, so the battery is also used as a "backup" for burst loads. This [1] seems to confirm it. [1] https://web.archive.org/web/20081225111200/http://support.ap...

ha, well I've noticed my battery discharges if I play Civ 6, even when plugged in. so that confirms it too.

this kind of behavior would warrant a return from me.

do you consider that to be a faulty behavior, or just par-for-the-course of heavy workloads on mobile platforms?

i'd hate for that to be the new norm, I use the hell out of my mobile computers, I don't need them draining before I even unplug.

Re: Apple changes default MacBook charging behavior to improve battery health

#324

Post by [deleted] »

shantara wrote: post #87
geoelectric wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you check the power tab under System Information, you can find some battery health info that might be illuminating. For example, my newish MBP16: Charge Information: Charge Remaining (mAh): 8362 Fully Charged: Yes Charging: No Full Charge Capacity (mAh): 8647 Health Information: Cycle Count: 18 Condition: Normal Looking it up, specced full capacity is 8818 mAh, so I'm at 98% health right now--probably lost a point…

8246 mAh after 34 cycles on my 16" 2019 MBP. That's a lot worse than I expected. What's the best way to slow battery degradation if I use it for 8-10 hours daily for work? Run MBP from an outlet and do full discharges once a week? Run MBP from the battery and recharge the battery when it depletes? Run MBP from the battery, but charge it only to 80%?

[deleted]

Re: Apple changes default MacBook charging behavior to improve battery health

#325

Post by kalleboo »

kevinherron wrote: post #204
jimmcslim wrote: post #197

It would be great if they made this available for Mojave... Catalina seems like such a shit-show that I have yet to upgrade. God knows my laptop is spending alot of time on its charger at the moment. Given 10.15.5 is likely to be the last version of Catalina before whatever comes next... maybe it will be time to jump in?

I've used Catalina since 10.15.1 and haven't had issues. On a 2016 15" MBP followed by a 2019 16" MBP.

Yeah, Catalina actually fixed some bugginess I had with Mojave. Only major loss is that some third-party prefpanes I use broke due to signing requirements

Re: Apple changes default MacBook charging behavior to improve battery health

#326

Post by krageon »

aquadrop wrote: post #316
ratww wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been explained that this is because those computers might need more power than the AC Charger is able to provide, so the battery is also used as a "backup" for burst loads. This [1] seems to confirm it. [1] https://web.archive.org/web/20081225111200/http://support.ap...

Isn't better way just limit possible amount of power needed(downclock CPU or something) instead of just refusing to give user anything?

Why? Keeping the behaviour as it is makes you buy more, which is the objective of a company that shamelessly marks up hardware by arbitrary amounts.

Re: Apple changes default MacBook charging behavior to improve battery health

#327

Post by IanSanders »

Razengan wrote: post #198
rubber_duck wrote: post #53

I got a top spec 15 MBP a year ago and I have to say the experience is appalling - 4000$ device that goes full airplane takeoff levels of noise at any serious workload, no ability to control performance (I would gladly throttle the CPU sooner to avoid everyone in the office turning my way when I start an emulator or keep the fans at lower RPM but constantly instead of letting the CPU idle at 60-70 degrees with no fan…

The core thermal management of macOS seems to be better than Windows: https://youtu.be/LGOmbNRlZdM?t=495 (8:15) And I've always gotten better battery life on average on MacBooks than other laptops, and in macOS than in Windows on the same Mac. The problem is when there are bugs (of which there are many) in the other higher-level daemons and third-party apps that get stuck in some task and cause the CPU to unnecessari…

Important clarification

The core thermal management of macOS seems to be better than Windows on the same mac device

Re: Apple changes default MacBook charging behavior to improve battery health

#328

Post by layoutIfNeeded »

sambe wrote: post #127
dartdartdart wrote: post #5

For people who use their laptops primarily as plugged in machines, there should be a 50% max charge mode.

Why is it not possible to completely save the battery when on AC? i.e. charge the battery to 100% (or something close) but power the laptop directly via the charger.

>power the laptop directly via the charger

Recent macbooks can't run directly from the charger. The charger is not beefy enough to provide power during peak CPU/GPU usage.

Re: Apple changes default MacBook charging behavior to improve battery health

#329

Post by nizmow »

krageon wrote: post #326
aquadrop wrote: post #316

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't better way just limit possible amount of power needed(downclock CPU or something) instead of just refusing to give user anything?

Why? Keeping the behaviour as it is makes you buy more, which is the objective of a company that shamelessly marks up hardware by arbitrary amounts.

Strangely enough, they did exactly as suggested when batteries started wearing out on iPhones (unable to reliably provide the voltage at full drain for peak performance) and you're the exact kind of person who jumped on them for planned obsolescence.

Re: Apple changes default MacBook charging behavior to improve battery health

#330

Post by FabHK »

kalleboo wrote: post #215
varjag wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this was a "feature" among all pre-Jobs Powerbooks.

Naw, I have a PowerBook 145B and 540c, both have batteries that are long-dead and removed and they run fine.

The PowerBook 145b was my first Mac. Wonderful little machine. 4 MB RAM, 80 MB hard disk. I ran a web browser on it, MacWeb, and could surf the web as it was back then perfectly fine. Not today, I suspect.
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