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Apple changes default MacBook charging behavior to improve battery health

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Re: Apple changes default MacBook charging behavior to improve battery health

#311

Post by satysin »

Joeri wrote: post #270
satysin wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have almost identical spec laptops from Dell and Apple (XPS 15 and 15" MacBook Pro with same CPU) and on both they ramp up to full fan speed when I do any serious work on them so it isn't limited to Apple laptops. Pretty much all 15" laptops with 45W Intel CPUs turn into jet engines when under load, at least in my experience. Also not to defend Apple but I do find the MacBook Pro cools down and gets quieter quicker…

I have a thinkpad t460p, it has a 45w cpu and stays quiet under load, even after years of use. It is two times as thick as a macbook pro. Newer thinkpads are thinner and louder. As long as people buy for sleekness first and thermals second this is the outcome you get.

Yes I wanted to go back and edit my post to clarify my "pretty much all" statement to state that I mean pretty much all the popular consumer and "stylish mobile workstation" 15" models with 45W CPUs are like this.

It is possible to buy thicker/bulkier laptops that do a much better job at passive cooling and so don't get so loud.

Personally I prefer the lighter/slimmer laptops for easier portability and am fine with the trade off of them being louder and thermal throttling a bit under load but I appreciate not everyone feels the same as me.

Re: Apple changes default MacBook charging behavior to improve battery health

#312

Post by em500 »

wyclif wrote: post #268
gruez wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>i.e. charge the battery to 100% (or something close) but power the laptop directly via the charger. That's already what's happening. However that's not enough. Leaving the battery full is harmful in and of itself.

Understood. So why hasn't Apple done something about this earlier? IOW, a setting that charges the battery to a maximum of 80% when plugged in?

Because you need to predict whether people want to use it plugged in or on a full charge afterwards.

Re: Apple changes default MacBook charging behavior to improve battery health

#313

Post by madeofpalk »

unbendable wrote: post #267
cmckn wrote: post #80

Why doesn't the UI report 80% as 100%? It seems like exposing this to the user is more confusing than anything, when the cells could be over provisioned and treated politely by a system controller, without the user being part of the decision. Aren't SSD's over provisioned in this manner? You sell a drive with a terabyte of storage, but actually ship more than a terabyte of chips in the case to accommodate degradation…

I just switched from Linux to Mac for my company notebook. No offense, but for me it is like the Mac is taking my hand and guiding me threw a mess. However sometimes I know the way better than the Mac but it is not letting me. It actually makes it really hard to „go my way“. For example the “only trusted developer program“ can be run . I understand why it makes sense for most people but I want an option to decide it…

I can not align with this.

"Gatekeeper", the ‘only trusted developers’ setting is a setting in System Preferences. Windows also ships with an equivalent setting in the default.

Re: Apple changes default MacBook charging behavior to improve battery health

#314

Post by ahmedalsudani »

neurostimulant wrote: post #307
fluffything wrote: post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have arch linux on that same machine and there are indeed a million knobs to tune these things. I haven't yet managed to make it work as good as a macbook, after putting in around ~100h by now into the problem. I went back to macbooks ~1 month ago. The Dell is still brand new (4 months old, ~4000$ fully spec'ed), but my employer does not want it back, so it is now sitting in a drawer in my office. I ended up billin…

Why did you use arch instead of other distro that known to work on many laptops, such as Ubuntu?

This is pure FUD in my opinion. Arch has always run better on every computer I’ve owned, especially newer ones.

The people for whom Ubuntu works usually have fewer requirements or are not as particular about things working _just right_.

That’s not to say I haven’t had issues with Arch, but there were fewer and they were easier to figure out.

Now if you want a distro where you can update packages without manual intervention several times a year, then it’s probably best to look past Arch.

Re: Apple changes default MacBook charging behavior to improve battery health

#315

Post by fsflover »

sschueller wrote: post #258
philwelch wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This probably goes hand in hand with the unremovable batteries. Back when they had removable batteries you could run it on AC with no battery installed and it would work fine.

Someone remind me why the batteries are no longer removable? Macbooks aren't water tight. Oh right, the laptop looks pretty and the battery can't be fitted in one area without adding some thickness. Im so sick over this form over function crap that everyone copies.

Purism Librem 15 is also pretty thin, but the battery is easily removable.

Re: Apple changes default MacBook charging behavior to improve battery health

#316

Post by aquadrop »

ratww wrote: post #56
wrs wrote: post #42

I've noticed that on newer (past few years) MacBook Pros, if their battery runs down too far they refuse to start up, even when plugged into the charger. The battery has to charge for 10-15 minutes with the "dead battery" icon on the screen. It's exactly the same behavior as iPhone/iPad. In past MacBook models, the battery could be dead--or even completely removed--and the charger would power the laptop fine. Anyone…

I've been explained that this is because those computers might need more power than the AC Charger is able to provide, so the battery is also used as a "backup" for burst loads. This [1] seems to confirm it. [1] https://web.archive.org/web/20081225111200/http://support.ap...

Isn't better way just limit possible amount of power needed(downclock CPU or something) instead of just refusing to give user anything?

Re: Apple changes default MacBook charging behavior to improve battery health

#317

Post by cb22 »

mjayhn wrote: post #90
rubber_duck wrote: post #53

I got a top spec 15 MBP a year ago and I have to say the experience is appalling - 4000$ device that goes full airplane takeoff levels of noise at any serious workload, no ability to control performance (I would gladly throttle the CPU sooner to avoid everyone in the office turning my way when I start an emulator or keep the fans at lower RPM but constantly instead of letting the CPU idle at 60-70 degrees with no fan…

If it makes you feel any better I branched off to a XPS 13 2in1 4 months ago in between jobs (where I use the latest mbp) and used the thing for 2-3 months with no MBP as backup. I absolutely hate it. It throttles constantly even after undervolting it. I had to do a bunch of black magic to get it to sleep properly (which is evidently happening to every Dell) and eventually gave up on that and just set it to hibernate…

> I absolutely hate it. It throttles constantly even after undervolting it. I had to do a bunch of black magic to get it to sleep properly (which is evidently happening to every Dell) and eventually gave up on that and just set it to hibernate any time the lids closed (it's 32gb so that adds about 30 seconds to the start up time). I've spent more time tweaking this thing, reading forums and reddit about how to make it perform DECENTLY than I did building my last hackintosh and I don't enjoy that experience ever. When you get past all these issues it's still Windows 10 which I just find to be the most annoying OS I've ever used.

Really? I love my XPS 7390 2-in-1, it's the best laptop I've used and owned by far and that includes Macbooks. Combined with a WD19TB dock (and a useful trick of flipping it around so it's an inverted L) it makes a great work from home setup. Its thermal profile is relatively aggressive by default but it should stay at 15W (and ~65 degree temps) indefinitely. Upping the power limit to 25W (like the Windows / Dell "Ultra Performance" mode does) and it appears it can maintain that too. I mean, Crysis can even run on the thing [1].

That said, I'd probably lose my mind if I had to run Windows on it. A suggestion for getting good old S3 sleep to work: enable the hack for reenabling S3 sleep in the Windows registry, then disable "Early Signs of Life / Dell Logo" in the BIOS [2]. I'm not sure if this will work on Windows, but it works flawlessly on Arch.

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3MXS_KJf_M0 [2] https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Dell_XPS_13_2-in-1_(739...

Re: Apple changes default MacBook charging behavior to improve battery health

#319

Post by noisem4ker »

userbinator wrote: post #162
noisem4ker wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's nothing wrong with letting users learn how hard disk marketers are ripping them off, instead of playing their game. But, as usual, Apple prefers to choose blissful ignorance for their sheep customers. Besides that, we have proper units for binary multiples: KiB, MiB, and so on. I've only seen KDE use them properly so far, and it's a shame.

Besides that, we have proper units for binary multiples Approximately 0 average users know about them, and of the technical users, only the truly irritatingly pedantic are going to use them (which may be why they've shown up in Linux).

That added "i" inbetween can go unnoticed for those not caring, it can be an invitation to learn for the curious, and most importantly it is an important disambiguation for those who know. The trade-off is absolutely positive to me.

Re: Apple changes default MacBook charging behavior to improve battery health

#320

Post by Etheryte »

kevinherron wrote: post #204
jimmcslim wrote: post #197

It would be great if they made this available for Mojave... Catalina seems like such a shit-show that I have yet to upgrade. God knows my laptop is spending alot of time on its charger at the moment. Given 10.15.5 is likely to be the last version of Catalina before whatever comes next... maybe it will be time to jump in?

I've used Catalina since 10.15.1 and haven't had issues. On a 2016 15" MBP followed by a 2019 16" MBP.

Some people being lucky and not having issues doesn't mean other people don't have them. As evidenced in many comment threads recently, plenty of people have issues with Catalina.
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