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The Chair

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Re: The Chair

#141

Post by blub »

cmiles74 wrote: post #109
blub wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First of all, the modern desktop OS is patterned after the work of Xerox PARC. Second of all, that form factor was used before Apple introduced the Powerbook. Last but not least, best phone doesn't equal slab of touch-sensitive glass that drops calls when you hold it wrong. Touch screens in general aren't a great fit when it comes to phone use. If we're talking phones, models like the Nokia E52 beat the pants off of…

In this case I believe that crediting Apple for setting the bar on what a graphical user interface for a personal computer should look like is accurate. While they did borrow heavily from Xerox PARC and certainly didn't invent the dekstop, Apple put a compelling product in front of the masses.

Sure, they've had an important contribution, but there's a difference between recognition and adulation.

I recognize that Apple have left their fingerprint on computing. So have MS, Linux, IBM, the Osborne, etc.

Re: The Chair

#142

Post by jimbokun »

blub wrote: post #102
MrScruff wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. The thing that gets me is people claiming they hate Apple and Apple products while eulogising competing products that are derived from a category that Apple defined in the first place.

It's perfectly reasonable - the only similarity between Android and iPhone is the form factor, they can still hate the differences, and there are important differences.

"the only similarity between Android and iPhone is the form factor"

Where form factor includes size, shape, interaction paradigm and user interface conventions, software delivery mechanism, full web browser, on screen keyboard, accelerometer as a key user input device, ... and probably many other things I am forgetting.

If you look at most "smart phones" today, they will be surprisingly similar to the original iPhone (or at least the iPhone version when the App Store appeared).

Re: The Chair

#143

Post by pnathan »

bad_user wrote: post #51
tesseract wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I fear the world got lucky in that the Internet inherited its openness from academia, and the PC inherited its openness from the early hobbyist microcomputer scene. As in many other industries, openness - except when necessary for a bare minimum of interoperability - has never really been the norm in consumer electronics. As computing moves beyond the PC, I think that (sadly) we are going to have to get used to propr…

Unfortunately for companies moving beyond the PC, the genie is out of the bottle already. Phones have been historically locked down by carriers. Taking a look at the alternatives from just 5 years ago, the iPhone looks pretty damn open. And there is a reason for that, and why consumers didn't care. Consumers are used to phones being locked, but consumers are also used to doing whatever they want with the computers th…

With the people I've dealt with who aren't in the tech scene, modifying a computer is black magic. Openness is... not desired. What they want is a consumer appliance. Like a TV.

Didn't quite use to be that way. Computer users seemed to be at least a little geek, and wouldn't totally flip at installing a video card. At least in my experience.

So I say, screw the closed systems, I'll keep my PCs and read source code, I'll deep link to web sites from my blogs.

Re: The Chair

#144

Post by code_duck »

flyosity wrote: post #111
blinkingled wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Xoom can be bought online at Verizon or Moto websites. That nitpick aside it isn't anywhere near as bad as you are making it out to be. I am typing this post on one. The browser is far better. The OS is far more usable than the iPad, the higher screen resolution is great - I can RDP into my work PC and use it all day. The hardware is top notch, and battery life is plenty. I haven't connected it to a PC yet - have my…

We got a Xoom delivered to the office yesterday and the first-time experience was terrible. It locked up 10 seconds after turning it on and displayed the keyboard and nothing else on the screen. 6 engineers played with it for a few minutes trying to get the home screen to show up but we couldn't so we forced a hard restart. That seemed to work and we got into the setup process which forces you to pick wireless connec…

I think Motorola's problem is quality control, and perhaps releasing too early.

I had a Droid 2 that had all sorts of problems (I've been complaining about it on HN for a few months). Finally the camera stopped focusing, and I took it to Verizon. They gave me a brand new unit on warranty (which I was impressed with, it took two minutes for the Vz guy to suggest that. Or maybe they have a lot of problems with these?).

This phone is so much better than the one I had before. The problems I had with my original Droid - home screen weirdness, four different camera problems, locking up on the unlock screen, etc. are not present in this phone. I don't know if it's new firmware, or that the hardware on my old one was bad, or a combination.

So you might just have a flaky individual tablet. That wouldn't really be excusable, of course... Motorola needs to step up their game if they are going to challenge Apple.

Re: The Chair

#146

Post by Newky »

rahoulb wrote: post #116
Newky wrote: post #96

"This is the iPad doing something new, things that couldn’t be done on the Mac" This is what I want to see, I don't own an iPad but I won't until there is genuine things on it that I cannot achieve on my laptop. I feel it is easy for a device like this to become widespread as it feels magical to use, but for me as a computer scientist, and someone who uses his keyboard almost exclusively, I need something from the iP…

You can read on a laptop ... It's not about exclusivity. The thing with the Kindle (I've only used one briefly) and the iPad (I love my 1st gen) is that they do some things better than a laptop. Reading is better on a Kindle or an iPad - especially curled up on the sofa - than a laptop. Sketching is better on an iPad than on a laptop. Browsing in bed is better on an iPad than on a laptop. Typing is much worse on an i…

I take your point fully,

and I don't disagree that there are things that the iPad ultimately does do things BETTER,

I just see would like to see more innovative uses (such as garageband) but I guess thats just a case of patience.

Re: The Chair

#147

Post by runjake »

tumult wrote: post #2

The tech press needs to play up the competition to the iPad as much as possible, because drama drives clicks. But the reality is that Apple's iPad is so far ahead of everything else that it's almost out of sight. Have you used one of the 'iPad killers'? That is not competition. It's a joke. You can't even buy any of them, except for Samsung's Galaxy Tab. [And the Motorola Xoom, but only at retail Best Buy in America,…

Have you used one of the 'iPad killers'? That is not competition. It's a joke. You can't even buy any of them, except for Samsung's Galaxy Tab.

Have you played with them before coming to these conclusions? Jumping to conclusions without actual experience & trusting the media is a fool's errand.

I've played with them all, some being not-quite-release models. I'd have to largely agree that they are jokes.

The Xoom comes closest to being an iPad competitor, but I'd still much rather have an iPad. However, I think that there's a sizable segment of the market who would prefer a Xoom over that of an iPad, and maybe that's good enough for Motorola. Apple is still at what? single digit percentages with the Mac? They seem happy enough.

Re: The Chair

#148

Post by lloeki »

ZeroGravitas wrote: post #89
lloeki wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not selling more in Europe where Apple dominates. The only Android device cracking around here is the Galaxy Spica, not quite the same league as the iPhone.

IDC predicts Android to be the second best selling smarphone OS in Europe Q1 2011, that is, now. The first is, of course, Nokia which undermines your claim that Apple dominates on a second level. (Also, in the UK RIM is, somewhat inexplicably, the premier choice for young people and recently overtook Apple's web market share).

I was unclear: I meant iPhone (20%, +6%) vs Android (11%, +10%). Not saying Android won't pass, but I see it more like Q4-2011, 2012 even. Mostly depends on Apple's strategy notably WRT entry-level devices: phones like Spica are really appealing price-wise, especially when they're sold with small contracts (sometimes less than half the price per month of high-profile smartphones like the Galaxy S, Desire HD or the iPhone). Nokia's decline is staggering and unless they build up steam quickly with WP7 I see them in troubled waters.

Data source comScore: http://www.comscoredatamine.com/2011/02/smartphone-operating...

That said, I actually encountered more WinMo6 devices than Symbian ones (read: not much). Really don't know where they hide. Lots of "dumb" (mostly old) Nokia phones though.

Re: The Chair

#149

Post by ZeroGravitas »

lloeki wrote: post #148
ZeroGravitas wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IDC predicts Android to be the second best selling smarphone OS in Europe Q1 2011, that is, now. The first is, of course, Nokia which undermines your claim that Apple dominates on a second level. (Also, in the UK RIM is, somewhat inexplicably, the premier choice for young people and recently overtook Apple's web market share).

I was unclear: I meant iPhone (20%, +6%) vs Android (11%, +10%). Not saying Android won't pass, but I see it more like Q4-2011, 2012 even. Mostly depends on Apple's strategy notably WRT entry-level devices: phones like Spica are really appealing price-wise, especially when they're sold with small contracts (sometimes less than half the price per month of high-profile smartphones like the Galaxy S, Desire HD or the iP…

Is that marketshare or sales, it's not clear? Marketshare naturally lags sales e.g. in the US Android took the sales lead in August and the marketshare lead December/January.

I see they've got an entry from yesterday about Android overtaking iPhone in January for the US market so it looks like their figures are talking about marketshare, not sales:

http://www.comscoredatamine.com/2011/03/android-takes-lead-i...

Re: The Chair

#150

Post by flyt »

silvestrov wrote: post #93
flyt wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't forget that Apple has officially taken a liking to him, and that he is getting unusual access for a "regular guy". Pre-release hardware to review, invitations to private Apple media events, etc. It would be in his best interest to not anger Apple or they instantly cut off his access. See: Walt Mossberg.

This is what all of the industry do. If you review graphics cards and you put out a negative review, no more pre-release graphics cards for you. But Gruber's significant articles (like this one) are based on information that is public available. Most people just sees a chair, they don't see the thinking behind the chair. What Gruber does best is to explain how Apple thinks, I know of no journalists that comes anywher…

I agree that he probably understands the motivations and spirit of Apple better than most. My point is that he's now a part of the system in a subtle way, and to think about it when reading his coverage. He's no longer just a guy with a blog.
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