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The Chair

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Re: The Chair

#101

Post by blub »

phil wrote: post #52
alecperkins wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In some ways it doesn't even matter if they have competition or not, since Apple effectively defines the category and the expectations of the users. Even now, smart phones are generally playing catch-up to the iPhone. Yes, there is some innovation above and beyond Apple; Windows Phone 7 is surprisingly impressive, and the Web OS notification system is arguably superior. But, the comparison always comes back to the iP…

> defines the category and the expectations of the users It's stunning how long that has been true. The modern desktop OS is patterned after the Macintosh, modern laptops all use the form factor introduced by the Powerbook 100s, and now all the best phones are made to look like an iPhone.

First of all, the modern desktop OS is patterned after the work of Xerox PARC. Second of all, that form factor was used before Apple introduced the Powerbook. Last but not least, best phone doesn't equal slab of touch-sensitive glass that drops calls when you hold it wrong. Touch screens in general aren't a great fit when it comes to phone use. If we're talking phones, models like the Nokia E52 beat the pants off of any touch model.

Re: The Chair

#102

Post by blub »

MrScruff wrote: post #90
phil wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> defines the category and the expectations of the users It's stunning how long that has been true. The modern desktop OS is patterned after the Macintosh, modern laptops all use the form factor introduced by the Powerbook 100s, and now all the best phones are made to look like an iPhone.

Exactly. The thing that gets me is people claiming they hate Apple and Apple products while eulogising competing products that are derived from a category that Apple defined in the first place.

It's perfectly reasonable - the only similarity between Android and iPhone is the form factor, they can still hate the differences, and there are important differences.

Re: The Chair

#103

Post by nl »

rbarooah wrote: post #76
dannyr wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Replace "Xoom" with "G1"/"Android" and "IPad"/"IPad 2" with "IPhone". Pretty much exactly what people said more than 2 years ago.

True, but with the phones there were lots of people who couldn't buy an iPhone to use on their carrier or wanted something cheap. Android phones had a captive market. iPads are more useful, cheaper and not limited by carrier. Why would a non-enthusiast buy an Android tablet based on the idea they they might get better over time, when iPads are good now?

I don't understand this argument at all.

Why did anyone buy an iPad when they came out? There were no iPad specific apps when it came out, and yet it sold well.

Clearly, Android has a good web browser and email client, and that's enough for many. Just as clearly there are a huge number of non-tablet specific apps that will run fine on the Android tablets, and Android developers are desperately releasing tablet apps as fast as they can to try and take advantage of the "gold rush" when a new platform launches.

Re: The Chair

#104

Post by NickPollard »

brisance wrote: post #35

One thing that drives me crazy is how each competitor focuses on one or two things, usually hardware specs, and use those things to extol its superiority over Apple's offerings. That's like a car maker homing in on horsepower or number of cup-holders to sell a car. If I were to run a tech company competing in this space, I would do the following: 1) Get rid of the nonsensical names. There's a good reason why car make…

The naming thing is such a big issue and I don't see why everyone just keeps on getting it so wrong.

For an example, I bought a Sony Vaio laptop a few months ago. Great piece of kit and I love it, but trying to work out what to get was bewildering - there's 7 or 8 categories with single letter names - 'S-series, Y-series, Z-series, F-series' etc.

What do they mean? Which should I be looking at? I had to scour through comparing until I realised which one I should be looking at.

Compare that to Macbooks - you've got: Macbook (the standard, economical) Macbook Pro (high performance) Macbook Air (portable)

It's pretty clear to most people interested in buying a Macbook which one they should look at. Also relevant is the fact that Apple don't put too many versions out keeping things in well defined clusters.

Re: The Chair

#105

Post by deong »

rbarooah wrote: post #29
blinkingled wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Xoom can be bought online at Verizon or Moto websites. That nitpick aside it isn't anywhere near as bad as you are making it out to be. I am typing this post on one. The browser is far better. The OS is far more usable than the iPad, the higher screen resolution is great - I can RDP into my work PC and use it all day. The hardware is top notch, and battery life is plenty. I haven't connected it to a PC yet - have my…

Yes but for most non geeks, the Xoom doesn't do much beyond the built in apps, whereas the iPad has 65,000 apps they can use today. That might be different in a year's time but the average user would be crazy to choose a Xoom over an iPad 2 now for that reason alone.

Maybe I'm the weird one, but in nearly a year of using my iPad every day, I've simply found that apps don't matter nearly as much (for me) as they do on a phone. There are a handful of really popular apps like Kindle and Twitter, but those are also the ones that run everywhere. Looking at my iPad usage, there are only about 10-12 apps I use regularly. Most of them have equal or better Android versions (browser, mail, kindle, zinio, etc.). The one app I use that has no good replacement is Papers.

Like I said, I use my iPad constantly. But the things I hate about the first one, I hate about the second one too (notifications, no filesystem access, low-res screen). It's smaller, lighter, and faster, but the first one was small, fast, and light enough.

Meanwhile, I have an Android phone and there's a lot of stuff I like there. Especially on a large screen like the iPad/Xoom, the iOS notification system and static grid of icons on the home screen are just criminal. I'm going to buy a Xoom and give it a shot.

Re: The Chair

#106

Post by deong »

jrubyer wrote: post #77
edderly wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, I've tried a Xoom today, I also have bought an iPad a while back. Have you tried a Xoom yourself? I don't really see the relevance of the number of applications to the the UI experience.

>> I don't really see the relevance of the number of applications to the the UI experience. This is silly, without apps what value does it offer?

How many apps do you need? Don't get me wrong, I think the iPad is very, very good. I use mine every day. But I just took it out and counted the apps I actually use really ever, and apparently 64,987 of those 65,000 apps could be deleted tomorrow with no apparent loss of functionality for me. Of the 13 remaining, at least half run everywhere (Kindle, Twitter, etc.), several others are nice-to-have ways to access web sites (Alien Blue for Reddit, Instapaper, FeeddlerPro for Google Reader), and only one by my count has no suitable replacement outside of the iPad (Papers).

Yes, everyone will have a different set of apps they use, but there's no realistic justification that "SearchEngines.ru Forum" (from the recent release page I just looked at) is adding much value to the platform. A lot of those 65,000 are apps like those. Realistically, if you have maybe 1500 of the most popular apps, you have enough to pretty well serve the market.

Re: The Chair

#107

Post by ekidd »

rbarooah wrote: post #31
edderly wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, I've tried a Xoom today, I also have bought an iPad a while back. Have you tried a Xoom yourself? I don't really see the relevance of the number of applications to the the UI experience.

I have tried one myself otherwise I wouldn't have asked. The relevance is that the apps are what provide the UI. For the iPad there are 65,000 of them customized to utilize the full screen. For the Xoom, there are 16 customized for the full screen, and the rest are literally just blown up phone apps, many of which don't even rescale properly.

There are 16 featured tablet apps in the market. Search for HD, THD or tablet, and you'll find considerably more. I'm working on one of them.

Google could stand to refine the UI for finding tablet apps, though in fairness to them, showing off 16 good ones on launch week was probably a reasonable move.

(Written on a tablet-adapted HN reader that isn't one of the 16, on a Xoom.)

Re: The Chair

#108

Post by neutronicus »

dannyr wrote: post #64
tumult wrote: post #2

The tech press needs to play up the competition to the iPad as much as possible, because drama drives clicks. But the reality is that Apple's iPad is so far ahead of everything else that it's almost out of sight. Have you used one of the 'iPad killers'? That is not competition. It's a joke. You can't even buy any of them, except for Samsung's Galaxy Tab. [And the Motorola Xoom, but only at retail Best Buy in America,…

Ah, I still remember when the 1st Android phone came out (G1). A lot of people were dismissing it because the IPhone had a 2-year head start. Interface was ugly, phone is thick like a brick, only on 1 carrier, the smallest of the Big 4 at that. Well, how did that turn out? Android is selling more than the IPhone. A proper tablet OS didn't arrive until last month and people are already saying it's almost too late for…

Great for everyone, except those of us who were stupid enough to buy the G1...

Re: The Chair

#109

Post by cmiles74 »

blub wrote: post #101
phil wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> defines the category and the expectations of the users It's stunning how long that has been true. The modern desktop OS is patterned after the Macintosh, modern laptops all use the form factor introduced by the Powerbook 100s, and now all the best phones are made to look like an iPhone.

First of all, the modern desktop OS is patterned after the work of Xerox PARC. Second of all, that form factor was used before Apple introduced the Powerbook. Last but not least, best phone doesn't equal slab of touch-sensitive glass that drops calls when you hold it wrong. Touch screens in general aren't a great fit when it comes to phone use. If we're talking phones, models like the Nokia E52 beat the pants off of…

In this case I believe that crediting Apple for setting the bar on what a graphical user interface for a personal computer should look like is accurate. While they did borrow heavily from Xerox PARC and certainly didn't invent the dekstop, Apple put a compelling product in front of the masses.

Re: The Chair

#110

Post by ekidd »

erikpukinskis wrote: post #63
akashs wrote: post #15

It's a bit unfortunate that most of the post is a bunch of gushing about how Apple is so amazing. Unfortunate because there's a very insightful point in that second to last paragraph. The chair is definitely part of Apple's genius when it comes to the iPad. It shows us that this isn't a laptop or a PC and the iPad doesn't fall into the paradigms we're used to. It's something new, meant for you to use when you're rela…

But the Xoom is definitely a great step, especially with the higher-res, less awkward screen for watching video (the aspect ratio is an annoyance on the iPad). This reminds me of my friends who've dated someone for many years, and then once they got the nerve to leave them, they end up marrying the next person they date, within 12 months. When you spend time with something, you get really familiar with its weaknesses…

I also browse the web, read Gmail, check my calendar, and read books, all of which are great on the Xoom.

Games are still way behind the iPad, however, and I imagine that everybody needs at least one great long-tail app that's only available on the iPad right now.

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