Half of American workers would rather work from home forever: poll • Hacker News Board

Re: Half of American workers would rather work from home forever: poll

#281

Post by deevolution » Tue, Apr 14, 2020, 5:40 PM UTC

sethammons wrote: post #260

deevolution wrote: post #100

I think alot of people will want to go back because they've now associated working remotely with being in an isolated jail cell. Also I'm sure couples and people with kids are ready to jump out their windows. I wont be going back to the office for a number of reasons, however, and I think everyone should boycott the office as well. Weather you want to work in the office or not should ultimately be the employees choic…

Re VR workspaces: I’d love to try that. I can’t imagine it accounts for body language and facial expressions though, and those are core to meatspace.

VR facial expression and body language is still pretty low fidelity, but the technology is going to continue to improve. Most of the tech for capturing facial expressions exist already so it's a matter of integration.

For me the current tech is sufficient for office style social interactions, but maybe not suitable for everyone just yet.

Re: Half of American workers would rather work from home forever: poll

#282

Post by gspr » Tue, Apr 14, 2020, 5:57 PM UTC

sologoub wrote: post #238

gspr wrote: post #29

I wonder if this is related to the long commutes Americans have gotten used to. I'm not in the US, and while I would say I definitely appreciate the flexibility of being able to work from home (or from "not the office") every now and then, and I do like the present drop in meetings, I cannot fathom how people stay sane without a variety of other people around. My productivity has definitely dropped, and it feels like…

So what will you do when you inevitably retire? We’ve spent our lives making work the center (US probably more so than EU). What you are describing can read as “I can’t bare WFH” or it can be “the pandemic severed me from my social circle, that happened to be at work”. For me, at some point I realized that work friends replaced most of my social circle, but when I changed companies, I lost touch with most of them. Th…

While I haven't thought as far as retirement, I don't think I agree with the basic sentiment here. It's not that I need my "work friends". It's that I need my "work friends" while working. If I and all my "normal friends" were financially independent and didn't work (somehow I find it easier to picture, albeit far more unlikely, than retirement – go figure), I wouldn't feel robbed of social interactions at all. Well, maybe in the pandemic, but that's besides the point.

"Work friends" have some special properties: they share the good and the bad of this work thing you're currently enjoying or stressing about. They're both trapped at work, which hopefully is an interesting enough place, yet it's hopefully not the center of anyone's lives. I think there's some value to this shared experience, even though it of course doesn't "outrank" "real friendship".

Re: Half of American workers would rather work from home forever: poll

#283

Post by JauntTrooper » Tue, Apr 14, 2020, 6:23 PM UTC

gspr wrote: post #29

I wonder if this is related to the long commutes Americans have gotten used to. I'm not in the US, and while I would say I definitely appreciate the flexibility of being able to work from home (or from "not the office") every now and then, and I do like the present drop in meetings, I cannot fathom how people stay sane without a variety of other people around. My productivity has definitely dropped, and it feels like…

My commute is definitely a big part of why I strongly prefer to work from home. Every workday I'd waste 7am - 9am and 6pm - 7pm in transit or getting ready (putting on a suit, shining my shoes, packing lunch, packing/wearing rain shoes so my dress shoe soles don't get ruined, getting the kids ready for daycare etc.). It feels like I have an extra 3 hours in my day.

The commute was also mentally and emotionally exhausting: making sure I caught the subway on time, cramming into a packed train so I wouldn't miss it and have to wait another 20 minutes, listening to make sure the train didn't suddenly go express and skip my stop, being alert for people that pickpocket you or might get confrontational...

I don't miss the social aspect of work at all, but that might be more specific to my workplace (an investment bank). The people are nice enough, but there's little socializing and coworkers are often out traveling. I spent most of the time on the phone with people in other states anyway, even before this crisis. I think I've actually been more productive.

That said, working remotely has been a difficult adjustment. I am working a lot - basically nonstop 8am to 8pm, with a few very late nights recently - and haven't found a way to disconnect in the evenings yet. My wife and I are very anxious, but it's tough to disentangle the WFH experience with the anxiety we feel about family and friends getting sick, the heightened risk of being laid off, our upset clients dealing with shuttering their businesses, the dire headlines, and the broader uncertainty of how society will emerge from this crisis.

Re: Half of American workers would rather work from home forever: poll

#284

Post by npongratz » Tue, Apr 14, 2020, 6:53 PM UTC

Taek wrote: post #36

Tade0 wrote: post #19

No wonder given that the daily commute is both mentally and physically taxing for most. I've been working remotely since 2015 and have already decided to settle in a perhaps less attractive, but definitely cheaper neighbourhood so that I could have some office space in the house. In the long run it's probably going to cost as much as the sum total of fuel and vehicles used over the years, but the main benefit is not…

Make sure you account for the value of time saved. Time is precious and there's never enough, if I can find a way to add 40 more minutes to my day I'm going to value that immensely.

You're in luck if you move to Mars! Happens to have a 24:39:35 solar day :)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timekeeping_on_Mars

Re: Half of American workers would rather work from home forever: poll

#285

Post by oblib » Tue, Apr 14, 2020, 6:54 PM UTC

It was in the `70s that I first heard the concept "Telecommuting". I knew right off I would have to learn a skill set that allowed me to do that and started exploring the options.

It took me until the late-1990s to get there, but that's when I started working from home full time. Right now I have my office in the basement of our house. It's quiet, and spacious, and cluttered with the stuff I tinker with.

For me, the "shelter in place" thing we're going through hasn't really changed much at all in my routine. I prefer being alone in a quiet space when coding and have spent most of my days doing that for the past 20 years.

Since I could choose anywhere to do it, I chose the Ozark Mountains. I packed up and left Malibu and haven't regretted it for even a moment. I've hardly spent any time at all sitting in traffic since I got here. Before then it was common to spend a couple hours sitting in traffic getting to and from work. And often the same on days off going somewhere to have fun.

But it's not for everyone. My wife is way too social to spend much time alone. Right now she's on the phone or facebook almost all day chatting with friends and family, or watching TV.

I have all kinds of stuff to do aside from coding. We've got a big yard and a few acres of forested land with a menagerie of "critters", a barn, and a big veggie garden. All of them wanting my attention. I spend most all my time at home working on something. Shoot, I have to remember to drive my car now and then to keep the battery charged.

Most of my friends in LA could never live here. My wife struggles with it. She was raised Lake Forest, Il and loves whooping it up "Downtown". For me, all of Los Angeles felt pretty much like a "Downtown". Malibu Canyon St. Park in the Spring is actually a lot like the Ozarks, and I did love it there. But I hated sitting in traffic. I felt like I was wasting my life doing that.

Re: Half of American workers would rather work from home forever: poll

#286

Post by rrrrrrrrrrrryan » Tue, Apr 14, 2020, 7:11 PM UTC

dbingham wrote: post #160

gspr wrote: post #29

I wonder if this is related to the long commutes Americans have gotten used to. I'm not in the US, and while I would say I definitely appreciate the flexibility of being able to work from home (or from "not the office") every now and then, and I do like the present drop in meetings, I cannot fathom how people stay sane without a variety of other people around. My productivity has definitely dropped, and it feels like…

Extrovert / introvert. You're clearly more towards the extrovert part of the spectrum. Please try to have empathy for people on the introverted part of the spectrum who cannot fathom being forced into an office with tons of people distracting them all day every day. Heretofore they (save for a lucky few like me) have been forced to not just fathom it, but live it. The "half" of Americans mentioned in the article prob…

Introvert here. I feel exactly the same as OP.

For whatever reason, I need a physical change of scene to click my brain over into "work-mode". In college I couldn't comprehend how people could ever get any work done at home, but I had no problem studying in a library, or a coffee shop, or a classroom, and it's been the same after I entered the workforce.

As much as I enjoy derping at my home in comfy clothes on the weekends and evenings, I'm one of the people who actually appreciates the ritual of putting on nicer clothes, moving to a separate physical location, doing work there, and leaving my work there once I walk out of the building. Once I'm home and I kick off my shoes, I've entered a pure, work-free place where I can fully relax.

I suspect most people are in the same boat, and I'm curious: do you think you'd have the same frustrations if you had an office at work with a door you could close? To me, your post reads more like a criticism of modern cubicle-hell (or open-floorplan-hell), which everyone hates, extroverts included.

Re: Half of American workers would rather work from home forever: poll

#287

Post by mark_l_watson » Tue, Apr 14, 2020, 7:33 PM UTC

drewg123 wrote: post #280

kevstev wrote: post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You didn't find that there was pressure to work later? I tend to prefer to come in late because you can control your bound on that, but leaving early makes you look bad (despite the irrationality of that), and its just easy to fall into the habit of "oh just another hour, I will still be home for dinner..." Then there are meetings scheduled for 3-6pm....

There was some, but we tended to put a bound on meetings to 10-3. I had a good excuse in that I had hard deadline of 3:45 to pick my son up from school most days. The days that I stayed late, it was mostly for social events. Either TGIF on thursdays, or group celebrations which were generally at 4.

I was in Mountain View and my manager was in NYC, so we started working at the same time, given the 3 hour time difference.

Also, the manager of everyone in the ocean of people around me was my peer, we had the same manager, and he came in almost as early as I did.

So, no problem, or at least no problem that I worried about.

Re: Half of American workers would rather work from home forever: poll

#288

Post by ergothus » Tue, Apr 14, 2020, 8:06 PM UTC

dbingham wrote: post #160

gspr wrote: post #29

I wonder if this is related to the long commutes Americans have gotten used to. I'm not in the US, and while I would say I definitely appreciate the flexibility of being able to work from home (or from "not the office") every now and then, and I do like the present drop in meetings, I cannot fathom how people stay sane without a variety of other people around. My productivity has definitely dropped, and it feels like…

Extrovert / introvert. You're clearly more towards the extrovert part of the spectrum. Please try to have empathy for people on the introverted part of the spectrum who cannot fathom being forced into an office with tons of people distracting them all day every day. Heretofore they (save for a lucky few like me) have been forced to not just fathom it, but live it. The "half" of Americans mentioned in the article prob…

All of this. I've been trying to maintain empathy for those suffering from lack of social contact when I feel like they are demanding sympathy while continuing to demonstrate that they never appreciated the routine suffering they expected me to accept.

A gross generalization, but definitely a common interaction I'm seeing/feeling.

Re: Half of American workers would rather work from home forever: poll

#289

Post by rurban » Tue, Apr 14, 2020, 8:24 PM UTC

Understandably so. I'm working remote for 7 years now, and before also for over 10 years. I'm at least 10x more productive. No interruptions is the biggest cause. And only asynchron communication, in written form.

Also I do much longer hours, because it's much more fun, and I can take a siesta nap when I need it. I'm an extrovert btw.

Re: Half of American workers would rather work from home forever: poll

#290

Post by perl4ever » Tue, Apr 14, 2020, 10:54 PM UTC

dbingham wrote: post #160

gspr wrote: post #29

I wonder if this is related to the long commutes Americans have gotten used to. I'm not in the US, and while I would say I definitely appreciate the flexibility of being able to work from home (or from "not the office") every now and then, and I do like the present drop in meetings, I cannot fathom how people stay sane without a variety of other people around. My productivity has definitely dropped, and it feels like…

Extrovert / introvert. You're clearly more towards the extrovert part of the spectrum. Please try to have empathy for people on the introverted part of the spectrum who cannot fathom being forced into an office with tons of people distracting them all day every day. Heretofore they (save for a lucky few like me) have been forced to not just fathom it, but live it. The "half" of Americans mentioned in the article prob…

People can, and have been, calling the ability to work from home a privilege.

I think what you are calling "privilege" is an advantage, but it seems to me that because there is a consensus that "privilege" is bad, that's what everything is called whether it really is or not.

Have you seen the cartoon (there are many variations) comparing equality with equity? Where there are three people of different heights, and equality is where they each have the same height crate to stand on to see over a fence, whereas equity is where the shorter ones have more of a boost.

The thing that I noticed about that, is that it seems implicitly to be saying that advantage, if uncompensated for, is bad and shameful, while appropriate privilege is the remedy.

Isn't it reasonable to call it privilege when people are held to different standards, and advantage when people have different difficulty with the same standards?