Steve Jobs' reality distortion takes its toll on truth • Hacker News Board

Re: Steve Jobs' reality distortion takes its toll on truth

#261

Post by Dylanlacey » Fri, Mar 04, 2011, 3:05 AM UTC

bad_user wrote: post #134

jrockway wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple is a religion. It's like when, 2000 years ago, some flood destroyed some town. They knew God caused floods, and they thought God liked everyone, so they came up with some bullshit like, "those people had impure thoughts". You have to "qualify it" or else everything you believe in is gone. Now, the stakes are lower for tablet PCs versus The Meaning Of Life, and we all know... the lower the stakes, the more peopl…

I don't buy Apple products in general (with only one exception) and I think this presentation was of really poor taste, being in total agreement with the article. That said ... I have an iPhone 3GS and I couldn't care less that it has lower resolution, a 600 MHz processor and only 256 MB of RAM. I totally prefer it over any Android high-end device available right now, because it runs smoothly, it has all the apps tha…

In part they're "playing the game" because their followers want them to.

But I agree that it should be about how useful the device is, but that runs counter-intuitively to how companies work. The device must make more profit. This might mean being more marketable, or it might mean having a channel for content, or it might mean being better. Sadly, better is the WORST of the three.

Re: Steve Jobs' reality distortion takes its toll on truth

#262

Post by bane » Fri, Mar 04, 2011, 3:07 AM UTC

farlington wrote: post #227

billmcneale wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have a strange definition of "respect". Maybe behind closed doors and in board meetings, Jobs will admit that Android is a very fierce competitor that is taking market share away from Apple. But on the public front, he shows nothing but disdain for competitors and he spends much more time on stage disparaging them than he used to. Bashing competitors is not just poor form, it's usually the sign of a business losi…

It's worth mentioning that last year's Google I/O featured some intense competitor bashing from Vic Gundontra that actually did a lot to strengthen the Android brand, and cemented its status as the primary anti-Apple underdog (now uberdog?). I think any harsh remarks from Steve Jobs at this event should be viewed in that context, and are a reflection of the overall shift in tone between Apple and Google. The sniping…

When a perceived underdog bashes it's "scrappy", when a perceived leader does it it's "bullying", simple as that.

I think the thing I took away best from the original post is the presentation of some severe cognitive dissonance: huge pumping of specs, followed by carefully omitting specs that may not look the best, followed by "specs aren't important anyways".

Re: Steve Jobs' reality distortion takes its toll on truth

#263

Post by bane » Fri, Mar 04, 2011, 3:19 AM UTC

rbarooah wrote: post #152

c2 wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He did. Your comment was a long winded apologetic on why Apple was justified in lying, bending the truth, and promoting half truths. You started by saying "I don't agree" then ended up "Apple needs to state their viewpoints" which is subtly justifying their behavior. In my opinion, this is an open and shut case of Steve not being honest in his keynote, and he should be called out. It's especially disappointing to hea…

You are confusing explanation with justification. I think steve jobs was dishonest in presenting that uncorrected quote from the Samsung executive. It lessens him in my eyes and it has been called out already. Does that mean we can't attempt to understand his motivation without being called names? Must every statement about the subject begin with 'Steve Jobs is a liar'? It's worth pointing out that nothing else he sa…

"Does that mean we can't attempt to understand his motivation without being called names?"

I think that's implicit and not really necessary to discuss, "sell more stuff".

However, if Jobs came out tomorrow and said, "look folks, I've been kinda sick and out of the loop recently, somebody else put those slides together and I didn't realize they weren't accurate, sorry 'bout that" that'd be a reasonable explanation.

Re: Steve Jobs' reality distortion takes its toll on truth

#264

Post by bane » Fri, Mar 04, 2011, 3:23 AM UTC

rbarooah wrote: post #158

alex_c wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't the motivation "they lie to sell more devices" - which is what your post seems to dance around, without outright saying it? Or am I oversimplifying?

You're oversimplifying. The misquote of the Samsung executive is the only thing he said that might be dishonest. Unlike the original statement by Samsung that they sold 2 million devices. The fact is that executives in the industry make misleading statements all the time. These statements end up in headlines and do influence people. This is fact. Does this mean I like it? Of course not. Do I think it would be better…

Other than the Samsung quote, Jobs didn't lie.

Here's the ones you must have missed then, from the article:

"First dual core tablet to ship in volume."

">90% market share".

Re: Steve Jobs' reality distortion takes its toll on truth

#265

Post by rphlx » Fri, Mar 04, 2011, 3:23 AM UTC

bad_user wrote: post #134

jrockway wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple is a religion. It's like when, 2000 years ago, some flood destroyed some town. They knew God caused floods, and they thought God liked everyone, so they came up with some bullshit like, "those people had impure thoughts". You have to "qualify it" or else everything you believe in is gone. Now, the stakes are lower for tablet PCs versus The Meaning Of Life, and we all know... the lower the stakes, the more peopl…

I don't buy Apple products in general (with only one exception) and I think this presentation was of really poor taste, being in total agreement with the article. That said ... I have an iPhone 3GS and I couldn't care less that it has lower resolution, a 600 MHz processor and only 256 MB of RAM. I totally prefer it over any Android high-end device available right now, because it runs smoothly, it has all the apps tha…

Have you really tried a recent Android device? Many highly technical people (ok, programmers/nerds) prefer it after they dig into it vs an iPhone.

Notifications, Google Nav, 3D + Vectorized Google Maps, Chrome-to-Phone, a real filesystem with SFTP/FTP/HTTP sync apps, widgets, python via SL4A, free dev tools for Windows/Linux/Mac, awesome 3rd party ROMs, swappable batteries, SDCard, bigger screens, tight Google voice integration, WiMax/LTE, Swype, better cameras, faster javascript, $30/mo cheaper plans, etc.. I feel sorry for iPhone4 users who think they're superior because the scrolling on their phone is a little smoother.

Re: Steve Jobs' reality distortion takes its toll on truth

#266

Post by blrgeek » Fri, Mar 04, 2011, 3:39 AM UTC

stcredzero wrote: post #32

darthg0d wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This has been happening for quite some time. One of the earnings call last year was more of Android-bashing than a talk about Apple's successes. EDIT: I believe it was Steve doing the talk back then too.

I think this is a sign that they're running scared a lot more than they're letting on. It's only a matter of time before the iPad style tablet becomes commoditized. Quite a few years ago, Apple was one of the design leaders in the laptop space, then others caught up, more or less. The same thing happened in the smartphone space. The same thing will happen to tablets. In a way, they are subject to the same forces that…

This is probably Apple having trouble adjusting their world-view.

With the iPhone & iPad, Apple might have expected a level of success and market-share equal to the iPod.

And without Android, they might well have gotten there!

But with Android, Apple is looking at a market more like Desktop OS, than iPod.

Re: Steve Jobs' reality distortion takes its toll on truth

#267

Post by rbarooah » Fri, Mar 04, 2011, 3:39 AM UTC

martythemaniak wrote: post #217

rbarooah wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So that justifies your abusive behavior?

Yeah, because calling out someone's bullshit is now "abusive behaviour". Listen, people here aren't retarded - they don't need someone to try and explain why Jobs lied. He lied because he can make himself and Apple look better if he told the truth. It's the same reason most other people lie and it's so transparent a toddler can see through it. No one's gonna stop you from posting low quality Apple fluff, but don't ex…

If it's so transparent, and provokes such outrage, why does it make Apple look better?

I don't think it's so clear. I've noticed Jobs attacking the competition more and more - gradually increasing since the launch of the original iPhone - and, as I've said elsewhere it makes me think less and less of him.

At the same time, I'm curious as to why he feels he needs to do it given what a strong position they appear to be in. Wouldn't magnanimity serve them better? If not, why not? And if as you suggest, Jobs doing is serving Apple's best interests by doing this, how should we avoid getting into that position if we become successful ourselves?

I'd be interested to discuss this, but that means speculating about his motivations, which according to you, is off-limits in this community and must be policed with personal attacks and rudeness.

Re: Steve Jobs' reality distortion takes its toll on truth

#268

Post by bane » Fri, Mar 04, 2011, 3:43 AM UTC

taken11 wrote: post #92

jimbokun wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"So you're saying the iPad has sold more than 90% of all devices that are like iPads?" Or to put it another way, there are no other products like iPad.

hm, whats with the other 10% if there are no other products?

returns

Re: Steve Jobs' reality distortion takes its toll on truth

#269

Post by thenduks » Fri, Mar 04, 2011, 3:44 AM UTC

Tichy wrote: post #229

Tichy wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I read the camera is just VGA (640x480). My niece is on a MacBook, so I suppose her screen resolution is at least four times that.

Why the downvotes? I want my mum to chat with my niece. Mum would have an iPad, niece a MacBook. Mum should look good on the MacBook. Also, Facetime has been a major element of recent Apple ads.

The point is that mum and neice will look good -- you don't need a 12MP camera to do that.

Re: Steve Jobs' reality distortion takes its toll on truth

#270

Post by Dylanlacey » Fri, Mar 04, 2011, 3:44 AM UTC

Stormbringer wrote: post #240

And lo, at the slightest bit of Apple bashing in the media, suddenly the floodgates open and the hatorade pours forth. Do any of you Apple haters hold any other company to the standards you claim that Apple or Jobs has violated? No, you do not. You huff and you puff on their vapourware, but if Apple puts a single foot wrong you pounce. Why? Why the double standard? I'm not defending Apple†, and I think perhaps if all…

Part of it is pushing back on fanboyism. Neither are logical or sensible, but I believe one begets the other.

If you don't overly care about Apple and the only news you hear is either "Apple did this" and "I WANT APPLES BABIES", you will start to form an overly critical view, because the news seems to always tend towards hype.

And then some people (with the same fanboyish mindset as the fanboys) will start to take it too far, still as a backlash, but still just as ridiculous. You only get raging haters by either spectacular failure of delivery OR by having raging fans. People seek to balance by becoming unbalanced. I am guilty of this. I suspect a great many people are.

People don't like being told that someone else is better then they are, especially when it's something they hold dear. Geeks, therefore, do not like being told that they are a poorer person for making different technology choices. This is not news, see Vim VS Emacs. As fanboyism can be quite judgmental, this gets on people's nerves, and they become defensive, lashing out at the "Cause" (being Apple). The fanboys feel that their identity is being attacked, and they fight back with equal fervor.

None of this is rational or even useful, but it's just a product of social human nature.

(You're right, they big enough to fight their own battles, and they're big enough to toot their own horn, but people will do it for them, so people will do it against them.)