California, Oregon and Washington announce western states pact • Hacker News Board

Re: California, Oregon and Washington announce western states pact

#81

Post by xapata » Mon, Apr 13, 2020, 9:41 PM UTC

DoreenMichele wrote: post #15

As someone who lives in one of these states, I'm nonplussed at the announcement. It doesn't really seem to say anything concrete that I can tell. "We've agreed that we will use metrics...we are still deciding what these metrics will be." I thought the Stay Home, Stay Healthy order (in Washington state) wasn't unreasonable and wasn't just political babble, but I don't really know what to make of this piece. Anyone wan…

> nonplussed

It seems nonplussed has two, almost contradictory definitions:

1. (of a person) surprised and confused so much that they are unsure how to react.

2. (of a person) not disconcerted; unperturbed.

The latter is an "informal" definition. This seems to be the process by which the word awful switched from meaning awe-inspiring to the opposite.

Re: California, Oregon and Washington announce western states pact

#82

Post by themodelplumber » Mon, Apr 13, 2020, 9:41 PM UTC

zachkatz wrote: post #33

DoreenMichele wrote: post #15

As someone who lives in one of these states, I'm nonplussed at the announcement. It doesn't really seem to say anything concrete that I can tell. "We've agreed that we will use metrics...we are still deciding what these metrics will be." I thought the Stay Home, Stay Healthy order (in Washington state) wasn't unreasonable and wasn't just political babble, but I don't really know what to make of this piece. Anyone wan…

My ELI5 interpretation: “Since good leadership is probably not going to come from the President, we’re going to create our own “mini-country” and provide good leadership within it.”

Yep, I agree that's a key point. It's easy to confuse big picture language with "nothing concrete" but a lot had to happen behind the scenes before this ever went to press. I'm personally optimistic because of this under-appreciated factor among many others.

Re: California, Oregon and Washington announce western states pact

#83

Post by mrb » Mon, Apr 13, 2020, 9:41 PM UTC

mullingitover wrote: post #14

This is great, and it's a big chunk of population, but I keep feeling like we could do better. For example, these three States could do a great job, but there's nothing stopping a bunch of the other States from bungling it (like, say, ignoring health experts and exempting certain groups from mass gathering restrictions). Then those States end up exporting infectious individuals into the States which are doing things…

Well, this Western States Pact is a result of lack of leadership at the White House and federal level. They feel the US government is not doing enough, so they took the matter into their own hands.

Re: California, Oregon and Washington announce western states pact

#84

Post by _curious_ » Mon, Apr 13, 2020, 9:41 PM UTC

0x8BADF00D wrote: post #13

themodelplumber wrote: post #11

Yes. I love this from an executive-action standpoint. They are _doing_ something about something, in the face of a lot of fearful messaging. And that gives the rest of us an even better "emotional/energy vector" which is based on a promise of government support and action in support of business. We are participants in the most creative and powerful world economy of all time. Regardless of geographical location, cultu…

Delusional take. The petrodollar system is collapsing. USD will not be the reserve currency for much longer.

Care to put a timestamp on that?

Re: California, Oregon and Washington announce western states pact

#85

Post by dahdum » Mon, Apr 13, 2020, 9:41 PM UTC

Stay at home is doing enormous economic damage, which indirectly will cause more deaths through decimated budgets of social and health programs. Especially in CA where high progressive taxation amplifies the impact of recessions.

So there's a lot of pressure to reopen but no political cover to do so. I think the entire point of this pact is to provide that cover.

Re: California, Oregon and Washington announce western states pact

#86

Post by new_time » Mon, Apr 13, 2020, 9:41 PM UTC

JoshTriplett wrote: post #66

wahern wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not necessarily as flexible as to encompass such sub-federal cooperation: "No State shall, without the Consent of Congress, lay any Duty of Tonnage, keep Troops, or Ships of War in time of Peace, enter into any Agreement or Compact with another State, or with a foreign Power, or engage in War, unless actually invaded, or in such imminent Danger as will not admit of delay." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Article_O…

That would prevent any such pact from being legally binding on the states. It doesn't necessarily prevent states from coordinating at all.

Exactly, this seems like an friendly handshake agreement to cooperate with an official name and press release.

OTOH, pacts like the popular vote compact signed by some states in the past few years is almost certainly unconstitutional.

Re: California, Oregon and Washington announce western states pact

#87

Post by kitotik » Mon, Apr 13, 2020, 9:42 PM UTC

RandomTisk wrote: post #38

danhak wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, he wanted to dodge responsibility for the unpleasant job of shutting things down. Now he wants to enjoy positive publicity for opening things back up.

He wanted to shut down travel from China in January, something he got reamed for politically by the media and the left. Damned if you do and all that.

Also, travelers from Italy and Spain have been able to enter quite freely.

Re: California, Oregon and Washington announce western states pact

#88

Post by supernova87a » Mon, Apr 13, 2020, 9:42 PM UTC

Regardless of how sad a situation this reflects, I regard it at least as a positive sign of some resilience of our federal structure.

Criticize the state/federal model though you might for how it sometimes dilutes the ability to get things done in a unified way, at least in times of national or federal-level dysfunction, the people who can step in locally to provide some guidance and coordination are able to do so, and not actually be stymied or prevented from doing so by some authoritarian framework.

Imagine instead if we lived in a country with more organized / powerful central control, but was both authoritative and incompetent. We would be really fucked.

Re: California, Oregon and Washington announce western states pact

#89

Post by DoreenMichele » Mon, Apr 13, 2020, 9:42 PM UTC

JPKab wrote: post #73

DoreenMichele wrote: post #15

As someone who lives in one of these states, I'm nonplussed at the announcement. It doesn't really seem to say anything concrete that I can tell. "We've agreed that we will use metrics...we are still deciding what these metrics will be." I thought the Stay Home, Stay Healthy order (in Washington state) wasn't unreasonable and wasn't just political babble, but I don't really know what to make of this piece. Anyone wan…

My brother lives in Oregon. He was complaining to me the other day that Oregon's requirement that you are not allowed to pump your own gas is an obvious COVID transmission vector. To get gas in Oregon, he follows these steps: 1.) pull up to gas station 2.) Roll down window to hand attendant (who isn't wearing a mask, nor is required to) his debit card. 3.) Get card back from attendant. 4.) Sanitize the debit card 5.)…

I'm curious: Was that the law before the pandemic? If so, couldn't the pandemic be a good reason to campaign to change the law so Oregonians can pump their own gas?

Re: California, Oregon and Washington announce western states pact

#90

Post by mulmen » Mon, Apr 13, 2020, 9:42 PM UTC

BurningFrog wrote: post #51

mullingitover wrote: post #14

This is great, and it's a big chunk of population, but I keep feeling like we could do better. For example, these three States could do a great job, but there's nothing stopping a bunch of the other States from bungling it (like, say, ignoring health experts and exempting certain groups from mass gathering restrictions). Then those States end up exporting infectious individuals into the States which are doing things…

Then again, that one group of states would become a Single Point of Failure. If that centralized and coordinated leadership is incompetent and/or corrupt, there is no Plan B.

Sure there is. The Western States Pact is the plan B.