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Google can use Bluetooth to track phones even with Bluetooth turned off (2018)

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Re: Google can use Bluetooth to track phones even with Bluetooth turned off (2018)

#81

Post by tinus_hn »

rvz wrote: post #7
phipples wrote: post #5

In the bluetooth settings it literally states: "To improve device experience, apps and services can still scan for nearby devices at any time, even when Bluetooth is off." This can be completely turned off in scanning settings. The article title is kind of clickbaity.

Another point to make is that iOS also made it a bit harder for the user to completely turn off bluetooth and wifi from the control center since iOS 11, possibly allowing scanners and beacons to pick up these devices from passers by. Unless you directly get into the setting screen and switch it off. Sure Apple keeps Bluetooth/Wifi on for 'Find My' services but I'm pretty sure it will also be used for the contact trac…

Also airplane mode by default no longer turns off everything. Really annoying.

By the way this is not for ‘Find My’ services because these only work if the device has internet connectivity. The newly announced mesh functionality is not active yet.

Re: Google can use Bluetooth to track phones even with Bluetooth turned off (2018)

#82

Post by fsflover »

dmos62 wrote: post #39
_trampeltier wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have to say, I did not know that, you have to go to an extra menu. I really hate all todays OS, how they fool all user. On the other side, Apps like Wiggle.net do not work since Android 9 because they limited WiFi scanning.

It's easy to hide these things behind It Just Works (tm). Give me a device that doesn't "just work". I want actual freedom in what my peripherals are doing.

You should consider Librem 5 phone.

Re: Google can use Bluetooth to track phones even with Bluetooth turned off (2018)

#84

Post by ttty »

izacus wrote: post #22
thefounder wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder, what apps and services it helps improve? Why would you want to turn bluetooth off but not really turn it off?

Some uses I know about: 1.) Indoor location (uses beacons to improve accuracy). This is transparent to app developers which used fused location provider and just results in very accurate locations. 2.) Bluetooth fast pair - https://developers.google.com/nearby/fast-pair/spec This is for feature parity with Apple "magical" AirPod pairing. You open the headphone case and immediately the popup appears asking you to conn…

If I disable Bluetooth I don't expect these features to be working...

Re: Google can use Bluetooth to track phones even with Bluetooth turned off (2018)

#85

Post by memco »

deevnullx wrote: post #66
sneakymichael wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I remember reading from an authoritative source (Probably the Apple Support website, but I don’t remember alas) that this is done to retain functionality of wireless-based system services — which require Bluetooth and Wi-Fi enabled; like AirDrop, Handoff, Universal Clipboard, Instant Hotspot, etc. (Not for nefarious/tracking reasons.)

That is the "Continuity Protocol". For a paper with a write-up on reverse engineering/tracking here is some stuff from last year. [1] tldr, yes, it can be used to track individual users, but doing it at scale (like just about everything else) would be significantly more difficult. MACs randomize every 15 minutes, so that is not effective for long term tracking. Continuity Protocol allows a fairly effective way of tra…

That is nice if it's doing that. I setup a shortcut so that I can fully turn off bluetooth when I leave the house, but it's a bit flaky: sometimes it works, sometimes it fails for unknown reasons and I end up having to go into settings. If this mitigation is sufficient I'll switch back to the control center toggle.

Re: Google can use Bluetooth to track phones even with Bluetooth turned off (2018)

#86

Post by soared »

markstos wrote: post #72
scatters wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having location history means that Maps knows places I visit often, so they're highlighted on the map and in the search box, saving time if I want to navigate there or find out opening times. It speeds up time-to-fix with GPS. It allows Google Pay to have the supermarket loyalty card ready when I get to the checkout. Little things like that.

Last time I checked, Google Pay stores your credit card number in the cloud, which is not necessary. Both Apple Pay and Garmin Pay only store the card in an encrypted form locally. So giving Google my location history so I can also give them my credit card numbers when they don't need those either is not considered a feature. I use Google Maps frequently and have been bothered by any behavior changes there. My home a…

Google pay works on many different devices, something apple and garmin don't need at the same scale. I have google pay on a couple different laptops, phones, and tablets and wouldn't want to re-enter details 10 times.

Re: Google can use Bluetooth to track phones even with Bluetooth turned off (2018)

#87

Post by maccard »

thefounder wrote: post #80
maccard wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

my Bluetooth headphones don't support pairing with multiple devices. The easiest way to stop them from pairing with my phone when I want them to pair with my PC is to turn Bluetooth off on my phone. functionally, I don't care whether Bluetooth is off or not, I just want my headphones to pair with my PC. this has the added bonus of being easy to undo (turning on Bluetooth pairs with my headphones again)

>> this has the added bonus of being easy to undo (turning on Bluetooth pairs with my headphones again) I still seem to miss the "added bonus" compared with disabling the bluetooth completely.

sorry, I meant that it was an added bonus compared to keeping Bluetooth turned on and unpairing my device through the settings menu in my phone.

Re: Google can use Bluetooth to track phones even with Bluetooth turned off (2018)

#88

Post by machello13 »

pottertheotter wrote: post #69
floatingatoll wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems a bit overblown to suggest that iOS is hiding this, when it openly warns you what it's doing when you use those Control Center buttons (messages shown quoted below) and leaves the buttons highlighted in a non-disabled state (in contrast to the disabled state that Airplane Mode usually displays one centimeter above): > Disconnecting Nearby Wi-Fi Until Tomorrow > Disconnecting Bluetooth Devices Until Tomorrow…

I bet if you stopped 100 people and asked them to turn off Bluetooth or WiFi using the control center, and to pay attention to the messages you quoted, 100 of them would read those messages and see the colors of the buttons go from blue to white and tell you it means those services are completely deactivated. It absolutely does not warn you that it is keeping some of those services going in the background.

I don't agree with that. Some people will never understand anything about their phones, and that's fine, but I don't think the message "Disconnecting Bluetooth Devices Until Tomorrow" is at all misleading about the fact that it's only disconnecting devices, and not shutting down Bluetooth.

Re: Google can use Bluetooth to track phones even with Bluetooth turned off (2018)

#89

Post by Lio »

floatingatoll wrote: post #26
rvz wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Another point to make is that iOS also made it a bit harder for the user to completely turn off bluetooth and wifi from the control center since iOS 11, possibly allowing scanners and beacons to pick up these devices from passers by. Unless you directly get into the setting screen and switch it off. Sure Apple keeps Bluetooth/Wifi on for 'Find My' services but I'm pretty sure it will also be used for the contact trac…

It seems a bit overblown to suggest that iOS is hiding this, when it openly warns you what it's doing when you use those Control Center buttons (messages shown quoted below) and leaves the buttons highlighted in a non-disabled state (in contrast to the disabled state that Airplane Mode usually displays one centimeter above): > Disconnecting Nearby Wi-Fi Until Tomorrow > Disconnecting Bluetooth Devices Until Tomorrow…

If it’s to meet user needs why can’t I opt to have real on/off in the control centre again?

Personally I think this is more “Maybe later” passive aggressive crap from Apple. You know, where they take the option to say no out of the UI.

Re: Google can use Bluetooth to track phones even with Bluetooth turned off (2018)

#90

Post by sabujp »

phipples wrote: post #5

In the bluetooth settings it literally states: "To improve device experience, apps and services can still scan for nearby devices at any time, even when Bluetooth is off." This can be completely turned off in scanning settings. The article title is kind of clickbaity.

It's not at all clickbaity since "apps and services can still scan for nearby devices at any time" doesn't clearly indicate what's happening with that information. It should be better said as "To improve USER experience, apps and services can still scan for nearby devices at any time and extrapolate/derive/get location data, even when Bluetooth is off." This clearly indicates to someone that turning off bluetooth from the pull down menu doesn't make you invisible via blueooth which is what I've always expected.
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