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Google can use Bluetooth to track phones even with Bluetooth turned off (2018)

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Re: Google can use Bluetooth to track phones even with Bluetooth turned off (2018)

#51

Post by catalogia »

scatters wrote: post #45
markstos wrote: post #17

The article says turning off Location History "cripples" certain features of Android and Google. That's a stretch. I have had Location History disabled for years and have yet to notice what crippled experience I suffered from, but I did learn today that my location is not being sent to Google when Bluetooth is turned off. Disabling Location History seems like it has significant upside to me. Think about it this way.…

Having location history means that Maps knows places I visit often, so they're highlighted on the map and in the search box, saving time if I want to navigate there or find out opening times. It speeds up time-to-fix with GPS. It allows Google Pay to have the supermarket loyalty card ready when I get to the checkout. Little things like that.

> It speeds up time-to-fix with GPS

There has been something seriously fucked with Google Maps in this particular regard. On my phone with my location/privacy settings, it takes Google Maps 5-10x times as long to get a location fix as it takes OSMAnd. It works eventually, but it's dog slow.

Re: Google can use Bluetooth to track phones even with Bluetooth turned off (2018)

#52

Post by catalogia »

Causality1 wrote: post #41

What's all this data about me worth to Google? It can't be that much. I've never bought something from an internet ad in my life. With the whole world going SaaS I'm amazed there's no "Google Private" subscription where I can pay them five dollars a month to give me what they already do without collecting data about me. Frankly I think personal data is every bit as much of an addiction as heroin.

> What's all this data about me worth to Google? It can't be that much. I've never bought something from an internet ad in my life.

Just spitballing here, but it seems conceivable that information about you could help them improve their behavior modelling and consequently help them advertise more effectively to other people.

Re: Google can use Bluetooth to track phones even with Bluetooth turned off (2018)

#53

Post by kuzimoto »

bryanrasmussen wrote: post #40
kuzimoto wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think anyone should "love" Google. Sure I enjoy using some of their services, but at the end of the day they will sell every single detail they can gather about you to make money. That's not something to "love" even if they are using it for other interesting things.

neither do I, but the question was why anyone would want to track bluetooth devices available even when bluetooth turned off and that extremely unlikely reason was the only one I could think of.

Okay, well I completely misread your comment haha.

Re: Google can use Bluetooth to track phones even with Bluetooth turned off (2018)

#54

Post by grawprog »

_trampeltier wrote: post #32
phipples wrote: post #5

In the bluetooth settings it literally states: "To improve device experience, apps and services can still scan for nearby devices at any time, even when Bluetooth is off." This can be completely turned off in scanning settings. The article title is kind of clickbaity.

I have to say, I did not know that, you have to go to an extra menu. I really hate all todays OS, how they fool all user. On the other side, Apps like Wiggle.net do not work since Android 9 because they limited WiFi scanning.

I too did not know this, or even that there was a separate scanning setting. I'm also not sure where this message even pops up. I don't remember ever reading any time about apps being able to use Bluetooth while turned off and enabling and disabling Bluetooth did not seem to produce the message. I can't seem to find any mention of it in the Bluetooth help menu either. This is on Android 9.

I've found the scanning menu by searching for it. This is the only place that seems to mention allowing apps to scan Bluetooth while Bluetooth is off. It seems to be defaulted to disabled though.

Re: Google can use Bluetooth to track phones even with Bluetooth turned off (2018)

#55

Post by rypskar »

izacus wrote: post #24
kibwen wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There was a time when Google Maps would simply refuse to work without having Location History turned on; not sure if that has changed by now.

That was never true. It was annoyingly aggresive, had some annoying UI limitations (e.g. it wouldn't remember past trips) but it was never fully unable to function.

I would say only giving the first voice direction when using maps to find a location is not working. I was using maps to find a place the GPS-map in my car didn't find, maps told which direction to start, but after starting to drive it did pop up a message that location history had to be turned on to get more directions

Re: Google can use Bluetooth to track phones even with Bluetooth turned off (2018)

#56

Post by gumby »

thefounder wrote: post #6
phipples wrote: post #5

In the bluetooth settings it literally states: "To improve device experience, apps and services can still scan for nearby devices at any time, even when Bluetooth is off." This can be completely turned off in scanning settings. The article title is kind of clickbaity.

I wonder, what apps and services it helps improve? Why would you want to turn bluetooth off but not really turn it off?

> Why would you want to turn bluetooth off but not really turn it off?

A typical case I used to see is "let me switch off bluetooth so that my car doesn't keep connecting while I connect it to your phone" combined with "hey, how come my watch isn't connected to my phone?"

Now it works as the user expected.

This isn't how you or I might expect it to work but I suspect it satisfies most users' mental models.

This isn't intended to praise or condemn the behaviour, I'm simply responding to your question.

Re: Google can use Bluetooth to track phones even with Bluetooth turned off (2018)

#57

Post by jschwartzi »

kibwen wrote: post #19
markstos wrote: post #17

The article says turning off Location History "cripples" certain features of Android and Google. That's a stretch. I have had Location History disabled for years and have yet to notice what crippled experience I suffered from, but I did learn today that my location is not being sent to Google when Bluetooth is turned off. Disabling Location History seems like it has significant upside to me. Think about it this way.…

There was a time when Google Maps would simply refuse to work without having Location History turned on; not sure if that has changed by now.

On the LG phones I've used Google Maps is insanely slow when Location History is disabled. Same on the Samsung S7 my fiance uses.

Re: Google can use Bluetooth to track phones even with Bluetooth turned off (2018)

#58

Post by thefounder »

izacus wrote: post #22
thefounder wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder, what apps and services it helps improve? Why would you want to turn bluetooth off but not really turn it off?

Some uses I know about: 1.) Indoor location (uses beacons to improve accuracy). This is transparent to app developers which used fused location provider and just results in very accurate locations. 2.) Bluetooth fast pair - https://developers.google.com/nearby/fast-pair/spec This is for feature parity with Apple "magical" AirPod pairing. You open the headphone case and immediately the popup appears asking you to conn…

So you disable bluetooth...and then you are expected to pair with bluetooth headphones/airpods or connect to other devices(i.e mac) ?

Re: Google can use Bluetooth to track phones even with Bluetooth turned off (2018)

#59

Post by Angostura »

dmos62 wrote: post #39
_trampeltier wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have to say, I did not know that, you have to go to an extra menu. I really hate all todays OS, how they fool all user. On the other side, Apps like Wiggle.net do not work since Android 9 because they limited WiFi scanning.

It's easy to hide these things behind It Just Works (tm). Give me a device that doesn't "just work". I want actual freedom in what my peripherals are doing.

If you want actual freedom, you have to take time to look at all the menus.

Re: Google can use Bluetooth to track phones even with Bluetooth turned off (2018)

#60

Post by cptskippy »

dhimes wrote: post #44
cptskippy wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Using devices with GPS + WiFi to identify and catalog the relative geographic location of SSIDs is beneficial to other devices with WiFi capability that can benefit from Geographic location but lack GPS. The same is true of Bluetooth beacons.

Such as? My watch, for example, uses the gps from my phone (if I would let it, that is). And are you implying that Google is cataloging my SSID even though I have it "hidden?"

You're fixated on it being about you specifically and your devices and direct benefits. If your phone's WiFi detects an SSID at a location and 10 other devices confirm your findings, then when I come along and connect to that SSID, with my non GPS enabled Tablet,my experience can be enriched with coarse location contextualized information. The same is true of IP addresses.

> SSID even though I have it "hidden?"

A hidden SSID is only hidden when it's not being used. That is to say if you setup your AP to not broadcast it's SSID then it's only invisible so long as you have no clients connected to it. As soon as a client connects to your "hidden" AP then it's SSID is broadcast to everyone and their mother.

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